Re: Principle 4 - Robust (was Re: Help needed with numbering success criteria for WCAG 2.1)

For reference: this discussion was started not because of the actual SC 
(which is in the works at the Mobile TF, and yes exceptions are already 
being looked at - see https://w3c.github.io/Mobile-A11y-Extension/ new 
SC 3.4.1). What I *did* want to bring up was the idea of Principle 4 - 
Robust being a better place for it 
https://github.com/w3c/Mobile-A11y-Extension/issues/2

So let's not get sidetracked, as that also doesn't help for swift 
discussions ;)

P


On 29/06/2016 18:09, Gregg Vanderheiden wrote:
> ah - and this is always what tripped us up in WCAG 2
>
> we have a good idea - but then think of times it should not apply.    We
> can just list those as exceptions because we Can’t think of them all.
>
> So we stare at them and try to see if there is some common pattern or
> some common characteristic that is the reason for those exceptions. If
> all we can come up with is that it should apply except when it shouldn’t
> for some good reason… Then we know we can’t do in SC that is testable
> since “good” isn’t testable.
>
> unghhhh.    We literally spent years trying to figure out how to get all
> of the good ideas that came up into some form that would qualify as an
> SC. Often we only could do part of what we wanted.
>
> Anybody see the magic pattern for the exceptions here?
>
> /gregg/
>
>> On Jun 29, 2016, at 8:50 AM, Jonathan Avila
>> <jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com <mailto:jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Ø  Ok — so you are thinking of an SC that requires pages to be
>> viewable without requiring the user to rotate their screens in on
>> format or another?
>>
>> Yes, but I think we need to carefully allow for some exceptions.   For
>> example, I believe there could be some needs such as taking pictures
>> of checks for mobile deposit that may work better in landscape mode
>> give the distance of the camera from the check, etc.   Some games that
>> scroll horizontally in landscape mode would then require two sets of
>> scrollbars in portrait mode which might make the game unplayable, etc.
>>
>> Jonathan
>>
>> Jonathan Avila
>> Chief Accessibility Officer
>> SSB BART Group
>> jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com <mailto:jon.avila@ssbbartgroup.com>
>> 703.637.8957 (Office)
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>>
>> *From:* Gregg Vanderheiden [mailto:gregg@raisingthefloor.org]
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, June 28, 2016 9:28 PM
>> *To:* Patrick H. Lauke
>> *Cc:* GLWAI Guidelines WG org; public-mobile-a11y-tf@w3.org
>> <mailto:public-mobile-a11y-tf@w3.org>
>> *Subject:* Re: Principle 4 - Robust (was Re: Help needed with
>> numbering success criteria for WCAG 2.1)
>>
>> Ah very good
>>
>> that would definitely be a barrier to someone whose computer is locked
>> / mounted in one position or another
>>
>> Ok — so you are thinking of an SC that requires pages to be viewable
>> without requiring the user to rotate their screens in on format or
>> another?
>> Sounds like a good - and new - and testable one.
>>
>> anyone see a hole in this?
>>
>> /gregg/
>>
>>
>>     On Jun 28, 2016, at 4:33 PM, Patrick H. Lauke
>>     <redux@splintered.co.uk <mailto:redux@splintered.co.uk>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>     Many sites currently do this sort of thing in a very primitive way
>>     (they check the browser window/viewport width/height and, if it's
>>     not in the "correct" ratio, they simply put a big roadblock in
>>     front of the content until the user changes the ratio/turns the
>>     device. As noted earlier in this thread, there are now more robust
>>     standards/techniques coming (screen orientation API, CSS
>>     directives that lock a view into a particular orientation,
>>     directives in progressive web app JSON manifests that explicitly
>>     set a locked orientation). And again, WCAG currently doesn't have
>>     the tools to flag this as a problem.
>>
>>     P
>


-- 
Patrick H. Lauke

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Received on Wednesday, 29 June 2016 17:16:40 UTC