W3C

– DRAFT –
ARIA WG

02 March 2023

Attendees

Present
Adam_Page, arigilmore, jcraig, MarkMcCarthy, Matt_King, melsumner, StefanS
Regrets
-
Chair
-
Scribe
jcraig

Meeting minutes

New Issue Triage

w3c/dpub-aria#51

jamesn: all PDUB issues.... DPUB group will handle

New PR Triage

w3c/accname#189 editorial

jamesn: melsumner please merge

melsumner: needs rebase

w3c/html-aam#462

jamesn: Scott, need more reviewers?

scotto: no, will merge

Deep Dive planning

anyone going to CSUN?

Daniel and James Craig at CSUN.. Matt OOO

keep the meeting... light issue triage

<jamesn> Meeting scheduled 10AM pacific on Monday

<jamesn> admin work - wpt is cross browser JS and python tests so engines can test

<jamesn> not much a11y support previously. one initiative has been the interop testing.

<jamesn> browsers get together and work out what they should be working on.

<jamesn> this year an a11y investigation. someone proposed tree evaluation - but that is lots more. jcraig suggested role and accname mappings. then some investigations on additional properties perhaps.

<jamesn> have posted an extenstion to webdriver - going throught review process right now. kickoff meeting on monday to work out what the success criteria will be. if interested add to web-platform-tests/interop-2023-accessibility-testing#4

<jamesn> cyns: looking at internal browser representation?

<jamesn> jcraig: make sure engine internals get right role and label

<jamesn> jcraig: not platform specific

<jamesn> cyns: may also have found someone for that

F2F agenda planning

Booked rooms in Adobe Seattle office

survey coming in the next few days

need an agenda

a number of issues with the F2F Candidate label on them

w3c/aria#1746

talked about it in Vancouver

jamesn: will link the minutes from TPAC

w3c/aria#1487

jamesn: I think we decided we're not doing this now. Will drop F2F label

w3c/aria#1440

aka aria-actions

will discuss... smhigley in person

Matt_King: yes please discuss

w3c/aria#1215

remove F2F

<spectranaut_> jcraig: how individuals contributing aria accname and htmlaam can write automated tests, a plan for organizing tests

<spectranaut_> jcraig, can you make an issue for this and add f2fcandidate?

cyns: if there are googler issues, many are next door to the Adobe Seattle office

everyone: will review issues and tag with F2F Candidate

Matt_King: announcements would be good to discuss

jamesn: something better than live regions

cyns: some Microsoft people were working on it

Aaron: Benjamin B is taking that over

Matt_King: okay to add various "unsolved problem" to the list?

jamesn: yes

Matt_King: will raise F2F Issue and link explainer

(paged content with misnomer "virtual" content)

cyns: good time to have non-ARIA related Accessibility issues

maybe an earlier meeting for those

Matt_King: would be good to meet about popover

Cyns: those people aren't in the Seattle office. was thinking of other issues.

Aaron: I can call in

Explain how values are obtained

jamesn: seems to make sense in accname

Bryan: some cases where there is no better way to define than have a value algorithm

Matt_King: combobox computed value from content of element... referenced accname

can't remove from ARIA until we have a replacement also, in accname or somewhere else

spectranaut_: IMO where this belongs is not as important as the definition: define the value of 3 items: textbox, search box, combobox

Is there a real world example of textbox that doesn't use <input type="text">?

Matt_King: I think some do

spectranaut_: i volunteered to take a start at the definition. any other actionable input?

jamesn: agree the algo def should come first

Matt_King: are there situations where the accname algorithm couldn't be used for value algo?

jamesn: needs to be written down.

spectranaut_: spec says ambiguous things ~"get the value as if it were a button"

is that even correct?

<melsumner> I merged a few of the "editorial" and approved PRs on ACCNAME

Bryan: this is more broad than accname comp. when you return the value, your going to get other references from accname... e.g. aria-labelledby should not be used as the value comp in most cases

Matt_King: next steps?

spectranaut_: refocus on the cases we need to define... anything other than input for textbox, combobox, searchbox? maybe contenteditable="plaintext-only"

Matt_King: if the contenteditable has role="textbox | combobox | searchbox" we need to define

<Zakim> jcraig, you wanted to ask if anyone disagrees with adding a value algo?

Matt_King: not against a value algo

<melsumner> I wonder if this should be a F2F convo?

scotto: agree need the value algo... have the concepts of valuenow, value text, spinbutton.. include those too

Bryan: I was opposed to using accname to expose the value... separate algo seems necessary

jamesn: proposal to add value comp algo to accname, alongside name comp and description comp

consensus

<Matt_King> +1 to covering other roles like spinbutton with a value algorithm so that valuetext can take precedence over valuenow

Does the "Presentational Roles Conflict Resolution" always apply?

aria-hidden error case: disallow aria-hidden on root or document element (e.g. <html> or <body>) agendabot]

arigilmore: summarizes w3c/aria#1254 (comment)

difficult to disallow this... blocking authors from doing this

scotto: seems like this is an ARIA in HTML spec

<spectranaut_> belongs in aria-html: https://www.w3.org/TR/html-aria/

jamesn: asking browser to not expose

<spectranaut_> can we say in the aria spec for aria-hidden "not allowed on root node in the host language"

<scotto> maybe a bit more complicated than just the author / conformance rule in aria in html. maybe something that would been needed to be mentioned in AAMs then?

<spectranaut_> jcraig: re what anne said we can leave the relection and not map it in the browser

Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by scribe.perl version 210 (Wed Jan 11 19:21:32 2023 UTC).

Diagnostics

Succeeded: s/seems like this is an ARIA in HTML spec/scotto: seems like this is an ARIA in HTML spec/

Succeeded: s/can we say/can we say in the aria spec for aria-hidden/

Succeeded: s/root document/root node/

Maybe present: Aaron, Bryan, cyns, everyone, jamesn, scotto, spectranaut_

All speakers: Aaron, arigilmore, Bryan, cyns, everyone, jamesn, Matt_King, melsumner, scotto, spectranaut_

Active on IRC: Adam_Page, arigilmore, jamesn, jcraig, MarkMcCarthy, Matt_King, melsumner, scotto, spectranaut_, StefanS