17:59:21 RRSAgent has joined #aria 17:59:26 logging to https://www.w3.org/2023/03/02-aria-irc 17:59:26 RRSAgent, make logs Public 17:59:27 please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), jamesn 17:59:27 meeting: ARIA WG 17:59:33 agendabot, find agenda 17:59:33 jamesn, OK. This may take a minute... 17:59:34 agenda: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/665c08c6-871d-4f53-a758-d6259ca56ca1/20230302T130000 17:59:34 clear agenda 17:59:34 agenda+ -> New Issue Triage https://bit.ly/3SDMj9T 17:59:34 agenda+ -> New PR Triage https://bit.ly/3KKafXf 17:59:36 agenda+ -> Deep Dive planning https://bit.ly/aria-meaty-topic-candidates 17:59:39 agenda+ -> F2F agenda planning https://github.com/w3c/aria/labels/F2FCandidate 17:59:42 agenda+ -> Explain how values are obtained https://github.com/w3c/accname/issues/184 17:59:45 agenda+ -> Does the "Presentational Roles Conflict Resolution" always apply? https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1389 17:59:48 agenda+ -> aria-hidden error case: disallow aria-hidden on root or document element (e.g. or ) https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1254 18:01:35 arigilmore has joined #aria 18:02:28 present+ 18:02:36 present+ 18:02:36 scribeNick: jcraig 18:02:41 present+ 18:02:46 scribe: jcraig 18:02:50 present+ 18:02:53 scotto has joined #aria 18:02:57 agenda? 18:03:11 Zakim, take up item 1 18:03:11 agendum 1 -- -> New Issue Triage https://bit.ly/3SDMj9T -- taken up [from agendabot] 18:03:42 https://github.com/w3c/dpub-aria/issues/51 18:03:59 jamesn: all PDUB issues.... DPUB group will handle 18:04:11 present+ 18:05:00 Zakim, take close item 1 18:05:00 I don't understand 'take close item 1', jcraig 18:05:04 Zakim, close item 1 18:05:04 I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, jcraig 18:05:12 Zakim, take up item 2 18:05:12 agendum 2 -- -> New PR Triage https://bit.ly/3KKafXf -- taken up [from agendabot] 18:05:32 https://github.com/w3c/accname/issues/189 editorial 18:05:41 jamesn: melsumner please merge 18:05:46 melsumner: needs rebase 18:05:55 https://github.com/w3c/html-aam/pull/462 18:06:24 jamesn: Scott, need more reviewers? 18:06:32 scotto: no, will merge 18:07:00 Zakim, close item 2 18:07:00 I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, jcraig 18:07:11 q? 18:07:23 q- jamesn 18:07:27 Zakim, close item 2 18:07:27 agendum 2, -> New PR Triage https://bit.ly/3KKafXf, closed 18:07:27 I see 6 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is 18:07:27 1. -> New Issue Triage https://bit.ly/3SDMj9T [from agendabot] 18:07:56 zakim, close item 1 18:07:56 agendum 1, -> New Issue Triage https://bit.ly/3SDMj9T, closed 18:07:57 I see 5 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is 18:07:57 3. -> Deep Dive planning https://bit.ly/aria-meaty-topic-candidates [from agendabot] 18:08:09 Zakim, close item 1 18:08:09 agendum 1, -> New Issue Triage https://bit.ly/3SDMj9T, closed 18:08:10 I see 5 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is 18:08:10 3. -> Deep Dive planning https://bit.ly/aria-meaty-topic-candidates [from agendabot] 18:08:38 zakim, next item 18:08:38 agendum 3 -- -> Deep Dive planning https://bit.ly/aria-meaty-topic-candidates -- taken up [from agendabot] 18:09:36 anyone going to CSUN? 18:09:54 Daniel and James Craig at CSUN.. Matt OOO 18:10:44 keep the meeting... light issue triage 18:12:29 Meeting scheduled 10AM pacific on Monday 18:12:59 admin work - wpt is cross browser JS and python tests so engines can test 18:13:20 not much a11y support previously. one initiative has been the interop testing. 18:13:34 browsers get together and work out what they should be working on. 18:14:23 this year an a11y investigation. someone proposed tree evaluation - but that is lots more. jcraig suggested role and accname mappings. then some investigations on additional properties perhaps. 18:15:23 have posted an extenstion to webdriver - going throught review process right now. kickoff meeting on monday to work out what the success criteria will be. if interested add to https://github.com/web-platform-tests/interop-2023-accessibility-testing/issues/4 18:15:52 cyns: looking at internal browser representation? 18:16:07 jcraig: make sure engine internals get right role and label 18:16:17 jcraig: not platform specific 18:16:52 cyns: may also have found someone for that 18:20:34 zakim, close this item 18:20:34 agendum 3 closed 18:20:35 I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is 18:20:35 4. -> F2F agenda planning https://github.com/w3c/aria/labels/F2FCandidate [from agendabot] 18:20:40 zakim, next item 18:20:40 agendum 4 -- -> F2F agenda planning https://github.com/w3c/aria/labels/F2FCandidate -- taken up [from agendabot] 18:20:48 Matt_King has joined #aria 18:21:03 present+ 18:21:38 Booked rooms in Adobe Seattle office 18:21:53 survey coming in the next few days 18:21:57 need an agenda 18:22:17 q+ 18:22:37 a number of issues with the F2F Candidate label on them 18:22:49 https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1746 18:23:12 talked about it in Vancouver 18:23:37 jamesn: will link the minutes from TPAC 18:23:45 https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1487 18:24:05 jamesn: I think we decided we're not doing this now. Will drop F2F label 18:24:12 https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1440 18:24:20 aka aria-actions 18:24:39 will discuss... smhigley in person 18:24:48 Matt_King: yes please discuss 18:25:08 https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1215 18:26:56 remove F2F 18:27:16 ack me 18:28:01 jcraig: how individuals contributing aria accname and htmlaam can write automated tests, a plan for organizing tests 18:28:19 jcraig, can you make an issue for this and add f2fcandidate? 18:29:06 cyns: if there are googler issues, many are next door to the Adobe Seattle office 18:29:32 agenda? 18:30:45 everyone: will review issues and tag with F2F Candidate 18:30:59 Matt_King: announcements would be good to discuss 18:31:09 jamesn: something better than live regions 18:31:30 cyns: some Microsoft people were working on it 18:31:38 MarkMcCarthy has joined #aria 18:31:40 present+ 18:31:49 Aaron: Benjamin B is taking that over 18:32:11 Matt_King: okay to add various "unsolved problem" to the list? 18:32:16 jamesn: yes 18:32:48 Matt_King: will raise F2F Issue and link explainer 18:33:12 (paged content with misnomer "virtual" content) 18:33:54 cyns: good time to have non-ARIA related Accessibility issues 18:34:25 maybe an earlier meeting for those 18:34:54 Matt_King: would be good to meet about popover 18:35:23 Cyns: those people aren't in the Seattle office. was thinking of other issues. 18:35:30 Aaron: I can call in 18:35:36 zakim, next item 18:35:36 agendum 5 -- -> Explain how values are obtained https://github.com/w3c/accname/issues/184 -- taken up [from agendabot] 18:36:16 q+ 18:36:29 jamesn: seems to make sense in accname 18:37:10 Bryan: some cases where there is no better way to define than have a value algorithm 18:37:36 Matt_King: combobox computed value from content of element... referenced accname 18:38:05 can't remove from ARIA until we have a replacement also, in accname or somewhere else 18:38:39 q? 18:38:50 ack spectranaut_ 18:39:32 spectranaut_: IMO where this belongs is not as important as the definition: define the value of 3 items: textbox, search box, combobox 18:40:11 Is there a real world example of textbox that doesn't use ? 18:40:19 Matt_King: I think some do 18:40:56 spectranaut_: i volunteered to take a start at the definition. any other actionable input? 18:41:15 jamesn: agree the algo def should come first 18:42:07 Matt_King: are there situations where the accname algorithm couldn't be used for value algo? 18:42:19 jamesn: needs to be written down. 18:42:53 spectranaut_: spec says ambiguous things ~"get the value as if it were a button" 18:43:03 is that even correct? 18:43:26 q? 18:43:30 q+ 18:43:32 I merged a few of the "editorial" and approved PRs on ACCNAME 18:44:53 Bryan: this is more broad than accname comp. when you return the value, your going to get other references from accname... e.g. aria-labelledby should not be used as the value comp in most cases 18:45:14 q+ to ask if anyone disagrees with adding a value algo? 18:45:47 q? 18:45:50 q+ 18:46:13 Matt_King: next steps? 18:46:32 ack spectranaut_ 18:46:36 q+ bryan 18:46:36 q+ bryan 18:47:22 spectranaut_: refocus on the cases we need to define... anything other than input for textbox, combobox, searchbox? maybe contenteditable="plaintext-only" 18:47:53 ack spectranaut_ 18:48:22 Matt_King: if the contenteditable has role="textbox | combobox | searchbox" we need to define 18:48:46 ack me 18:48:46 jcraig, you wanted to ask if anyone disagrees with adding a value algo? 18:49:28 Matt_King: not against a value algo 18:49:50 I wonder if this should be a F2F convo? 18:50:07 ack scotto 18:50:54 scotto: agree need the value algo... have the concepts of valuenow, value text, spinbutton.. include those too 18:50:57 ack bryan 18:51:22 Bryan: I was opposed to using accname to expose the value... separate algo seems necessary 18:52:01 jamesn: proposal to add value comp algo to accname, alongside name comp and description comp 18:52:12 consensus 18:52:17 q? 18:52:29 +1 to covering other roles like spinbutton with a value algorithm so that valuetext can take precedence over valuenow 18:52:34 agenda? 18:52:39 zakim, next item 18:52:39 agendum 6 -- -> Does the "Presentational Roles Conflict Resolution" always apply? https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1389 -- taken up [from agendabot] 18:53:04 zakim, close this item 18:53:04 agendum 6 closed 18:53:05 I see 1 item remaining on the agenda: 18:53:05 7. -> aria-hidden error case: disallow aria-hidden on root or document element (e.g. or ) https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1254 [from agendabot] 18:53:07 zakim, next item 18:53:07 agendum 7 -- -> aria-hidden error case: disallow aria-hidden on root or document element (e.g. or ) https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1254 -- taken up [from 18:53:10 ... agendabot] 18:54:44 arigilmore: summarizes https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1254#issuecomment-1440924542 18:54:51 q+ 18:55:34 q+ 18:55:42 ack scotto 18:55:43 difficult to disallow this... blocking authors from doing this 18:55:47 q+ 18:56:01 seems like this is an ARIA in HTML spec 18:56:23 ack me 18:56:46 belongs in aria-html: https://www.w3.org/TR/html-aria/ 18:56:46 s/seems like this is an ARIA in HTML spec/scotto: seems like this is an ARIA in HTML spec/ 18:57:13 jamesn: asking browser to not expose 18:57:28 ack me 18:58:11 q+ 18:58:23 can we say "not allowed on root document in the host language" 18:58:46 s/can we say/can we say in the aria spec for aria-hidden/ 18:59:43 s/root document/root node/ 19:00:34 maybe a bit more complicated than just the author / conformance rule in aria in html. maybe something that would been needed to be mentioned in AAMs then? 19:00:37 jcraig: re what anne said we can leave the relection and not map it in the browser 19:00:54 zakim, close this item 19:00:54 I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, jcraig 19:01:18 rrsagent, make minutes 19:01:19 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/03/02-aria-minutes.html jcraig 19:03:21 bkardell_ has joined #aria 20:04:19 howard-e has joined #aria 20:13:12 Adam_Page has joined #aria 22:24:35 jongund has joined #aria 23:04:51 jongund has joined #aria 23:48:40 jongund has joined #aria 23:55:23 melsumner has joined #aria