W3C

– DRAFT –
WCAG2ICT Task Force Teleconference

19 January 2023

Attendees

Present
bruce_bailey, BryanTrogdon, Chuck, Daniel, Devanshu, GreggVan, Laura, loicmn, maryjom, olivia-hogan-stark, philday, Rachael, Sam, shadi, ShawnT, ThorstenKatzmann
Regrets
Chris Loiselle, Fernanda Bonin
Chair
Mary Jo Mueller
Scribe
bruce_bailey, loicmn

Meeting minutes

<philday> https://github.com/w3c/wcag2ict/wiki/Scribe-list-&-instructions

<philday> Gives you some helpful shortcuts

<Chuck> Thank you Loic

<Chuck> We appreciate your best!

Announcements

maryjom: No announcements. Reminder to check work for the week that she sends
… the sooner we start the better for the meeting
… so please answer the surveys as soon as possible.

daniel-montalvo: Has started work on references

Standup for self-assigned work

<maryjom> https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/13

<daniel-montalvo> https://github.com/w3c/wcag2ict/pull/79

daniel-montalvo: Has been checking references. Issues 52 and 53. References should work

<Zakim> bruce_bailey, you wanted to ask how to go from project board to issue list ?

Chuck: Asks how to go from the project view to the issues list

maryjom: To get details on an issue just click on it
… The she shows her current work on definitions

maryjom: Reviews some other open issues. Bruce?

bruce_bailey: Asks to be assigned to issue 20. No work on other issues.

maryjom: will check progress of issues assigned to people not attending today's meeting

<bruce_bailey> i will try to create PR for https://github.com/w3c/wcag2ict/issues/20 early this afternoon.

maryjom: Any progress on issue 20?

Laura: has provided some reply to MJ comment in Github

Laura: correction. Has provided comment in issue 66, not 20.

Survey: Readiness of SC 1.4.12 proposal to incorporate into editor's draft

<maryjom> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/WCAG2ICTIdentifyInputPurpose/results#xq3

maryjom: This SC was already discussed previously. Then provides an overview of the replies provided.

<Chuck> FYI, Rachael has lost power and is no longer on the call.

maryjom: describes loicmn comment on the note and example (as written in the survey)

<bruce_bailey> Loic's comment/suggestion from survey is on GitHub thread: https://github.com/w3c/wcag2ict/issues/62#issuecomment-1378538504

Loicmn: GitHub comment is longer than response in survey
… in thread are suggestions to change SC, but I disagree and think SC works as is

<maryjom> https://github.com/w3c/wcag2ict/issues/62#issue-1442852437

maryjom: continues describing other replies to the survey
… her own comment is about making sure that providing a mechanism for changing text presentation is not required in the SC
… and GreggVan suggest a modification of the replacement text talking about markup language that is made available to the user

GreggVan: explains the rationale of his proposal: "This applies as written for Markup Languages that are exposed to user manipulation"

<maryjom> Gregg had suggested: This applies as written for Markup Languages that are exposed to user manipulation via AT, or built-in features of the software or platform.

loicmn: On web, we know markup languages are exposed to users...
… with software we don't know if that is always the case.

loicmn: will take work on apply Gregg's suggestion and then modify the note

Chuck: reminds us that we can suggest changes to WCAG, but it is difficult to change now because WCAG 2.2 being almost finished.

maryjom: clarifies that we are dealing with word substitutions to help to interpret WCAG in non-web domains

<maryjom> Mitchell suggested: Note: Markup properties are not always exposed to the user to modify.

maryjom: suggest to also take into account Mitchell's suggestion in GitHub ("markup properties").

+1

<bruce_bailey> +1

<maryjom> Poll: Do you support the above modification?

<ShawnT> +1

<Chuck> +1 Laura

<maryjom> +1

<Sam> +1

<philday> +1

<BryanTrogdon> +1

<olivia-hogan-stark_> +1

<daniel-montalvo> Laura: +1

<ThorstenKatzmann> +1

bruce_bailey: we should review previously accepted note, because the it is important to distinguish the case of markup made accessible to users/AT

GreggVan: we will need to do a review of AT access, in the area of closed functionality. At that time the access to markup can be reviewed.

<bruce_bailey> I recommend revisiting "implemented in markup languages [internally]" to "markup exposed to assistive technology" for 2.0 era SC

Survey: Readiness of SC 2.1.4 proposal to incorporate into editor's draft

<maryjom> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/WCAG2ICTCharKeyShortcuts/results

<maryjom> https://github.com/w3c/wcag2ict/issues/76#issue-1492528086

maryjom: only 3 replies so far
… will include this item in next week's agenda

philday: asks if there is a quick way of finding "open questionnaires"

maryjom: In the questionnaires page there is a link in the menu "current questionnaires"
… And there is a "work for the week" in the Wiki, with links to the surveys.

maryjom: Describes replies in the survey. She has an issue with note 1.
… and some editorial comments on note 2.
… Then she describes comments by loicmn

<Zakim> Chuck, you wanted to say I agree with Loic and Mary Jo, timing is not a factor in this SC and should not be considered in WCAG2ICT

Chuck: timing is not relevant in this SC. Suggest not to include timing into any WCAG2ICT consideration.

Sam: explains why he included timing, to help users to deal with unwanted key presses
… and also to deal with longpress of keys becoming key shortcuts

<Chuck> Definitely an interesting take I had not considered before.

Sam: and provides example of longpress an arrow key to select all the text.

maryjom: asks whether the user could do another keypress at the same time

loicmn: thinks that 2.1.4 is unrelated to timing.

GreggVan: interesting example. Might need to review definition of shortcut in WCAG 2.2 to make sure that time-based shortcuts are included.
… and agrees with loicmn that longpress as shortcut does not change the intent of 2.1.4

<bruce_bailey> +1 to GreggV that long press as "shortcut" per definition seems potentially problematic.

GreggVan: the important thing is that users should be able to change/stop the shortcut
… for compatibility with AT.

philday: wondering if this is only an issue in closed products

Chuck: it might necessary to review the definition of shortcut, but might be difficult to implement at this point of time

<Chuck> FYI, hard stop for me at top of hour.

Sam: agrees with philday's idea that closed products is interesting.

maryjom: Suggests that it could be interesting to change the note to link it to closed products instead of timing

<maryjom> https://github.com/w3c/wcag2ict/issues/76#issuecomment-1387279463

<philday> Thanks all and to Loic for scribing

Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by scribe.perl version 197 (Tue Nov 8 15:42:48 2022 UTC).

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Maybe present: daniel-montalvo

All speakers: bruce_bailey, Chuck, daniel-montalvo, GreggVan, Laura, Loicmn, maryjom, philday, Sam

Active on IRC: bruce_bailey, BryanTrogdon, Chuck, daniel-montalvo, Devanshu, GreggVan, loicmn, maryjom, olivia-hogan-stark, olivia-hogan-stark_, philday, Rachael, Sam, shadi, ShawnT, ThorstenKatzmann