14:32:44 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #wcag2ict
14:32:48 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2023/01/19-wcag2ict-irc
14:32:48 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
14:32:49 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), maryjom
14:32:51 <maryjom> zakim, clear agenda
14:32:51 <Zakim> agenda cleared
14:32:59 <maryjom> chair: Mary Jo Mueller
14:33:14 <maryjom> meeting: WCAG2ICT Task Force Teleconference
14:33:27 <maryjom> zakim, please time speakers at 2 minutes
14:33:27 <Zakim> ok, maryjom
14:33:40 <maryjom> Agenda+ Announcements
14:33:47 <maryjom> Agenda+ Standup for self-assigned work
14:33:54 <maryjom> Agenda+ Survey: Readiness of SC 1.4.12 proposal to incorporate into editor's draft
14:34:03 <maryjom> Agenda+ Survey: Readiness of SC 2.1.4 proposal to incorporate into editor's draft
14:34:23 <maryjom> regrets: Chris Loiselle, Fernanda Bonin
14:52:13 <loicmn> loicmn has joined #wcag2ict
14:55:08 <ThorstenKatzmann> ThorstenKatzmann has joined #wcag2ict
14:56:05 <Chuck> Chuck has joined #wcag2ict
14:56:33 <BryanTrogdon> BryanTrogdon has joined #wcag2ict
14:59:24 <bruce_bailey> bruce_bailey has joined #wcag2ict
15:00:28 <daniel-montalvo> present+ Daniel
15:00:35 <bruce_bailey> present+
15:00:35 <loicmn> present+
15:00:36 <maryjom> present+
15:00:38 <ThorstenKatzmann> present+
15:00:40 <Chuck> present+
15:00:45 <Rachael> present+
15:00:49 <philday> philday has joined #wcag2ict
15:00:58 <Chuck> agenda?
15:01:19 <maryjom> zakim, pick a scribe
15:01:19 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Daniel
15:01:48 <ShawnT> ShawnT has joined #wcag2ict
15:01:52 <maryjom> zakim, pick a scribe
15:01:52 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose loicmn
15:02:04 <philday> present+
15:02:40 <ShawnT> present+
15:03:24 <loicmn> Scribe: loicmn
15:03:38 <philday> https://github.com/w3c/wcag2ict/wiki/Scribe-list-&-instructions
15:03:45 <philday> Gives you some helpful shortcuts
15:03:55 <Chuck> Thank you Loic
15:03:58 <BryanTrogdon> present+
15:05:09 <Chuck> We appreciate your best!
15:05:14 <Devanshu> Devanshu has joined #wcag2ict
15:05:31 <loicmn> Zakim, take up next
15:05:31 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Announcements -- taken up [from maryjom]
15:05:41 <Devanshu> present+
15:05:56 <olivia-hogan-stark> olivia-hogan-stark has joined #wcag2ict
15:06:14 <olivia-hogan-stark> present+
15:06:43 <loicmn> maryjom: Not announcements. Reminder to check work for the week that she sends
15:07:04 <loicmn> ... the sooner we start the better for the meeting
15:07:32 <loicmn> ... so please answer the surveys as soon as possible.
15:08:08 <loicmn> daniel-montalvo: Has started work on references
15:08:18 <loicmn> Zakim, take up next
15:08:18 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- Standup for self-assigned work -- taken up [from maryjom]
15:08:42 <maryjom> https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/13
15:09:27 <bruce_bailey> q+ to ask how to go from project board to issue list ?
15:09:57 <daniel-montalvo> https://github.com/w3c/wcag2ict/pull/79
15:09:58 <loicmn> daniel-montalvo: Has been checking references. Issues 52 and 53. References should work
15:10:10 <Chuck> q?
15:10:44 <Chuck> ack Br
15:10:44 <Zakim> bruce_bailey, you wanted to ask how to go from project board to issue list ?
15:10:45 <bruce_bailey> ack me
15:11:07 <loicmn> Chuck: Asks how to go from the project view to the issues list
15:11:37 <loicmn> maryjom: To get details on an issue just click on it
15:11:51 <Sam> Sam has joined #wcag2ict
15:12:37 <loicmn> ... The she shows her current work on definitions
15:14:10 <loicmn> maryjom: Reviews some other open issues. Bruce?
15:14:32 <loicmn> bruce_bailey: Asks to be assigned to issue 20. No work on other issues.
15:15:04 <loicmn> maryjom: will check progress of issues assigned to people not attending today's meeting
15:15:37 <bruce_bailey> i will try to create PR for https://github.com/w3c/wcag2ict/issues/20 early this afternoon.
15:15:44 <daniel-montalvo> present+ Laura
15:15:52 <GreggVan> present+
15:15:52 <Sam> present+
15:16:20 <loicmn> maryjom: Any progress on issue 20?
15:16:42 <loicmn> Laura: has provided some reply to MJ comment in Github
15:17:40 <loicmn> Laura: correction. Has provided comment in issue 66, not 20.
15:18:10 <loicmn> q?
15:18:17 <loicmn> Zakim, take up next
15:18:17 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- Survey: Readiness of SC 1.4.12 proposal to incorporate into editor's draft -- taken up [from maryjom]
15:18:55 <Chuck> q+
15:19:12 <Chuck> ack Ch
15:19:17 <maryjom> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/WCAG2ICTIdentifyInputPurpose/results#xq3
15:19:26 <loicmn> maryjom: This SC was already discussed previously. Then provides an overview of the replies provided.
15:19:47 <loicmn> q+
15:20:04 <Chuck> FYI, Rachael has lost power and is no longer on the call.
15:20:56 <loicmn> maryjom: describes loicmn comment on the note and example (as written in the survey)
15:21:32 <olivia-hogan-stark_> olivia-hogan-stark_ has joined #wcag2ict
15:21:46 <loicmn> q?
15:21:58 <bruce_bailey> Loic's comment/suggestion from survey is on GitHub thread: https://github.com/w3c/wcag2ict/issues/62#issuecomment-1378538504
15:22:06 <loicmn> ack me
15:22:29 <bruce_bailey> scribe+ bruce_bailey
15:23:02 <bruce_bailey> Loicmn:  GitHub comment is longer than response in survey
15:23:15 <loicmn> q?
15:23:22 <shadi> shadi has joined #wcag2ict
15:23:25 <loicmn> Tanks, bruce_bailey
15:23:27 <bruce_bailey> ... in thread are suggestions to change SC, but I disagree and think SC works as is
15:23:29 <shadi> present+
15:24:01 <maryjom> https://github.com/w3c/wcag2ict/issues/62#issue-1442852437
15:24:23 <bruce_bailey> s/Tanks, bruce_bailey/
15:24:38 <loicmn> maryjom: continues describing other replies to the survey
15:25:19 <loicmn> .... her own comment is about making sure that providing a mechanism for changing text presentation is not required in the SC
15:26:05 <GreggVan> q+
15:26:16 <loicmn> ... and GreggVan suggest a modification of the replacement text talking about markup language that is made available to the user
15:26:18 <loicmn> q?
15:26:38 <maryjom> ack GreggVan
15:28:42 <loicmn> GreggVan: explains the rationale of his proposal: "This applies as written for Markup Languages that are exposed to user manipulation"
15:28:45 <loicmn> q+
15:29:28 <maryjom> ack loicmn
15:30:12 <maryjom> Gregg had suggested: This applies as written for Markup Languages that are exposed to user manipulation via AT, or built-in features of the software or platform.
15:30:39 <bruce_bailey> loicmn: On web, we know markup languages are exposed to users...
15:30:58 <bruce_bailey> ... with software we don't know if that is always the case.
15:31:06 <loicmn> q?
15:32:06 <Chuck> q+
15:32:43 <loicmn> loicmn: will take work on apply Gregg's suggestion and then modify the notethe
15:32:44 <Chuck> ack Ch
15:33:43 <loicmn> Chuck: reminds us that we can suggest changes to WCAG, but it is difficult to change now because WCAG 2.2 being almos finished.
15:33:54 <bruce_bailey> s/and then modify the notethe/and then modify the note
15:34:16 <loicmn> maryjom: clarifies that we are dealing with word substitutions to help to interpret WCAG in non-web domains
15:34:54 <maryjom> Mitchell suggested: Note: Markup properties are not always exposed to the user to modify.
15:35:35 <loicmn> maryjom: suggest to also take into account Mitchell's suggestion in GitHub ("markup properties").
15:35:42 <loicmn> +1
15:35:44 <bruce_bailey> scribe- bruce_bailey
15:35:47 <bruce_bailey> +1
15:35:48 <maryjom> Poll: Do you support the above modification?
15:35:52 <ShawnT> +1
15:35:56 <Chuck> +1 Laura
15:35:56 <maryjom> +1
15:36:01 <Sam> +1
15:36:01 <philday> +1
15:36:02 <BryanTrogdon> +1
15:36:03 <olivia-hogan-stark_> +1
15:36:06 <daniel-montalvo> Laura: +1
15:36:30 <ThorstenKatzmann> +1
15:36:30 <loicmn> Zakim, take next up
15:36:30 <Zakim> I don't understand 'take next up', loicmn
15:36:35 <bruce_bailey> q+
15:36:50 <Chuck> ack Br
15:37:34 <GreggVan> q+
15:38:00 <Chuck> ack Gr
15:38:00 <loicmn> bruce_bailey: we should review precious accepted note, because the it is important to distinguish the case of markup made accessible to users/AT
15:39:20 <loicmn> GreggVan: we will need to do a review to AT access, in the area of closed functionality. At that time the access to markup can be reviewed.
15:39:25 <bruce_bailey> I recommend revisiting "implemented in markup languages [internally]" to "markup exposed to assistive technology" for 2.0 era SC
15:39:58 <loicmn> Zakim, take up next
15:39:58 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- Survey: Readiness of SC 2.1.4 proposal to incorporate into editor's draft -- taken up [from maryjom]
15:40:22 <maryjom> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/WCAG2ICTCharKeyShortcuts/results
15:40:34 <maryjom> https://github.com/w3c/wcag2ict/issues/76#issue-1492528086
15:41:10 <loicmn> maryjom: only 3 replies so far
15:41:19 <philday> q+
15:41:28 <loicmn> ... will include this item in next week's agenda
15:41:54 <loicmn> philday: asks if there is a quick way of finding "open questionnaires"
15:42:27 <loicmn> maryjom: In the questionnaires page there is a link in the menu "current questionnaires"
15:43:36 <loicmn> ... And there is a "work for the week" in the Wiki, with links to the surveys.
15:44:35 <Chuck> q+ to say I agree with Loic and Mary Jo, timing is not a factor in this SC and should not be considered in WCAG2ICT
15:44:39 <Sam> q+
15:44:41 <loicmn> maryjom: Describes replies in the survey. She has an issue with note 1.
15:44:48 <loicmn> q?
15:45:31 <loicmn> ... and some editorial comments on note 2.
15:46:05 <loicmn> ... Then she describes comments by loicmn
15:46:10 <maryjom> ack philday
15:46:16 <maryjom> ack Chuck
15:46:16 <Zakim> Chuck, you wanted to say I agree with Loic and Mary Jo, timing is not a factor in this SC and should not be considered in WCAG2ICT
15:46:34 <maryjom> ack sam
15:46:40 <loicmn> Chuck: timing is not relevan in this SC. Suggest not to include timing into any WCAG2ICT consideration.
15:47:50 <loicmn> Sam: explains why he included timing, to help users to deal with unwanted key presses
15:48:30 <loicmn> ... and also to deal with longpress of keys becoming key shortcuts
15:48:35 <Chuck> Definitely an interesting take I had not considered before.
15:49:27 <loicmn> ... and provides example of longpress an arrow key to select all the text.
15:49:43 <loicmn> q+
15:50:09 <loicmn> maryjom: asks whether the user could do another keypress at the same time
15:50:24 <GreggVan> q+
15:50:39 <maryjom> ack loicmn
15:52:11 <maryjom> ack GreggVan
15:52:18 <philday> q+
15:52:32 <bruce_bailey> s/timing is not relevan in this/timing is not relevant in this
15:52:47 <loicmn> loicmn: thinks that 2.1.4 is unrelated to timing.
15:53:32 <Chuck> q+
15:53:48 <loicmn> GreggVan: interesting example. Might need to review definition of shortcut in WCAG 2.2 to make sure that time-based shortcuts are included.
15:54:15 <loicmn> ... and agrees with loicmn that longpress as shortcut does not change the intent of 2.1.4
15:54:31 <bruce_bailey> +1 to GreggV that long press as "shortcut" per definition seems potentially problematic.
15:54:36 <loicmn> ... the important thing is that users should be able to change/stop the shortcut
15:54:57 <loicmn> ... for compatibility with AT.
15:54:59 <maryjom> ack philday
15:55:21 <Sam> q+
15:55:36 <loicmn> philday: wondering if this is only an issue in closed products
15:55:39 <maryjom> ack Chuck
15:55:40 <Chuck> ack Ch
15:56:49 <maryjom> ack Sam
15:57:20 <loicmn> Chuck: it might necessary to review the definition of shortcut, but might be difficult to implement at this point of time
15:57:59 <Chuck> FYI, hard stop for me at top of hour.
15:58:01 <loicmn> Sam: agrees with philday's idea that closed products is interesting.
15:58:30 <loicmn> maryjom: Suggests that it could be interesting to change the note to link it to closed products instead of timing
15:59:32 <maryjom> https://github.com/w3c/wcag2ict/issues/76#issuecomment-1387279463
15:59:42 <daniel-montalvo> rrsagent, make minutes v1
15:59:43 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/01/19-wcag2ict-minutes.html daniel-montalvo
16:00:01 <philday> Thanks all and to Loic for scribing
16:01:22 <maryjom> s/Not announcements/No announcements/
16:02:51 <igarashi> igarashi has joined #wcag2ict
16:03:20 <maryjom> s/almos finished/almost finished/
16:04:04 <maryjom> s/precious accepted/previously accepted/
16:04:37 <maryjom> s/review to AT/review of AT/
16:50:40 <maryjom> rrsagent, make minutes
16:50:41 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/01/19-wcag2ict-minutes.html maryjom
18:03:45 <maryjom> zakim, end meeting
18:03:45 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been Daniel, bruce_bailey, loicmn, maryjom, ThorstenKatzmann, Chuck, Rachael, philday, ShawnT, BryanTrogdon, Devanshu, olivia-hogan-stark,
18:03:49 <Zakim> ... Laura, GreggVan, Sam, shadi
18:03:49 <Zakim> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
18:03:50 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/01/19-wcag2ict-minutes.html Zakim
18:03:55 <Zakim> I am happy to have been of service, maryjom; please remember to excuse RRSAgent.  Goodbye
18:03:55 <maryjom> rrsagent, bye
18:03:55 <RRSAgent> I see no action items
18:03:55 <Zakim> Zakim has left #wcag2ict