Meeting minutes
XR Accessibility User Requirements - open issues.
<Joshue108> https://
<Joshue108> [New User Need] 4.20 Wayfinding - Review of XR Accessibility User Requirements COGA
Joshue108: Offers an overview ...
Joshue108: A new suggested addition ...
Joshue108: Did discuss on 12 May, esp use case for "mono" and low vision
Joshue108: Visual issues for people with brain injury
Joshue108: some COGA users disoriented by stereo sound
<Joshue108> This is David Fazio comment https://
<Joshue108> JS: I have no complaint with supporting these needs
<Joshue108> But are we feeding requirements to a spec or a user agent?
<Joshue108> Should we make that distinction?
<Joshue108> If you look at configuration options in FF - they make everything searchable
<jasonjgw> Janina: it's unclear whether the requirements pertain to an application or a user agent. Making configuration options searchable is a ptential solution.
<Joshue108> JB: This could feed to spec, browser and content dev
<Joshue108> There are dependencies
<Joshue108> Multilayered
<Joshue108> JS: I think the landmark is the strongest case for the spec
<Joshue108> you may need to use standard kinds of markers for 360 space
<Joshue108> The sound stereo/mono is more user agent
<jasonjgw> Janina: having standard/consistent landmarks is an issue that could be addressed through standardization; mono options are user-agent.
<Joshue108> JB: The ref point is more 3D than 360^0
<Joshue108> JB: David Fazios comments have been really interesting/useful - as they are often representative of other a11y related user needs
jasonjgw: suggests two pieces here: orientation/nav; and audio option and its discoverability
<Joshue108> JW: There are two pieces, orientation and landmark request and then the audio option and its discoverability
jasonjgw: suggests discussing in turn
Joshue108: relates to 184
<Joshue108> https://
josh: wrong thing ...
jasonjgw: somewhat related ...
Joshue108: agrees with jgw
<Joshue108> JS: We have two issues here and should maybe talk individually
<Joshue108> On landmarks - do we have standard markations etc? Co-ords and directionality?
<Joshue108> JB: Good question
<jasonjgw> Janina: notes the relevance of 3d directional navigation and notations for it.
<Joshue108> JS: This is maybe more global
<Joshue108> JB: Who is doing this stuff in VR?
<Joshue108> JW: Are they asking for a reference system?
<Joshue108> Or some kind of mapping capability?
<Joshue108> JW: Its not clear what kind of affordances are wanted here?
<Joshue108> JW: Or is it design guidance?
<Joshue108> JS: There may be a need for communities to share meta data.
<jasonjgw> Janina: notes needs expressed elsewhere to be able to share metadata for navigational purposes.
<Joshue108> You want to enable this kind of collection and sharing
<Joshue108> RK: There has been research on what is the preferred system for VR..
<Joshue108> Either personal or absolute, or like with regards to plains, north south etc
<Joshue108> In the end, its down to personal experience etc
<Joshue108> Some maps have only North only orientation..
<Joshue108> The map can also move with you - the important thing is both
<Joshue108> What you see and how you provide that orientation.
<Joshue108> JS: In G maps if data is stored in standard notion then presentation aspects can be generated
<Joshue108> JB: Wonders if this is relative or customised?
<Joshue108> RJ: Absolute is in VR and shows itself in VR
<Joshue108> Personal shows how you see it in VR..
<Joshue108> We have similar problems with captioning..
<Joshue108> you can follow the user or set them in space
<Joshue108> Its better to have one ground truth, and adjust that to match perspectives
<Joshue108> Within VR games you will know everything
<Joshue108> JB: Finite space
<Joshue108> JS: Quick number crunching
Joshue108: Where are we?
Joshue108: is this a useful addition?
brewBelieve it's a nec addition to user reqs
<Joshue108> JB: This is a necessary addition IMO
josh: are there COGA affordances we need to accomodate?
<Zakim> Joshue, you wanted to suggest drafting something
<Joshue108> JS: I think there is a global need for this
<jasonjgw> Janina notes a common need for positioning for all users.
<Joshue108> Not just an a11y angle - there are things that already exist that are useful
<jasonjgw> Janina: there are specific affordances for specific groups of users that we haven't discussed in detail yet.
<Joshue108> There are also affordances for specific groups with disabilitie
<Joshue108> These things already exist - all kinds
<Joshue108> JS: Also they should be separate or address diff user needs
<jasonjgw> Janina notes there is existing experience of the needs of different users. Janina suggests data processing to provide for the different needs.
<Joshue108> JS: American printing house for the blind are doing reference points
<Joshue108> JOC: The menu system point about mono is important - we should also add that.
<Joshue108> https://
<Joshue108> [New User Need] 4.21 Understanding Actionable Targets - Review of XR Accessibility User Requirements COGA
Joshue108: About actionable targets for COGA
Joshue108: COGA people need to know what targets are actionable and how to interact with them
Joshue108: understand many objects are directly responsive to interaction
Joshue108: Unclear how one makes that conspicuous
jasonjgw: what can we generically say?
<Zakim> Joshue, you wanted to reply to Janina on global affordances
josh: Thinking about the unique equestion, are there particular affordances we need to call out?
Joshue108: If there cross refs to Content Usable, phps that would help understanding
jasonjgw: we need to make objects interactable via api
<Joshue108> JS: We are making this harder than needed
<Joshue108> We've had this problem for years..
<Joshue108> How certain controls are used are depended on evironment and previous knowledge etc
<Joshue108> Is this around the need for COGA AT?
<jasonjgw> Janina: notes this is a well understood problem in other domains (e.g., how to interact with a slider depending on assistive technology and operating system/hardware).
<Joshue108> What we need from the spec, is that you can map these things, and that they are not locked into code.
<Joshue108> So things are mappable via APIs
<Joshue108> +1 to Janina
<jasonjgw> Janina: we provide APIs to map user interface actions to control types.
Judy: recalls essential for some, useful for all applies here
<Zakim> Joshue, you wanted to suggest we reference content usable etc as a note
Joshue108: believe one of the best things we can do here is highlight need for apis
Joshue108: we might gather these as global implementation details we can call out
Joshue108: it's down to implementations to serve particular pwd needs
Logistics for RQTF
<Joshue108> <discussion on some issues for participants>
on mac Textual is an option
<jasonjgw> Janina notes that W3C's IRC server is always available; one can join a channel at any time for testing purposes.
<jasonjgw> Janina notes you don't need to wait for a meeting to experiment and test.
<Zakim> Joshue, you wanted to ask around next steps with some XR issues
jasonjgw: pauses to ask any updates on other areas of work ...
scott_h: nothing that can't wait
janina: wanted to flag ongoing remote meetings work
Judy: yes, but not everything is organized and integrated; som items just captured as ideas
Judy: so, please don't be put off we don't have it articulated well yet!
Judy: but feedback is certainly most welcome
Judy: notes bottom of doc; we need help getting it properly integrated
scott_h: will circulate the link on list
<Raja> Test
raja: irc seems to be working!
jasonjgw: Excewllent news!
Judy: will resend joining page
jasonjgw: think we'll need to do remainder XR next week?
Joshue108: one quick ...