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12:42:41 <trackbot> Meeting: Accessible Platform Architectures Working Group Teleconference
12:42:41 <trackbot> Date: 23 June 2021
12:43:05 <jasonjgw> agenda+ XR Accessibility User Requirements - open issues.
12:44:02 <jasonjgw> agenda+ Updates and coordination regarding other work (Media Synchronization, audio transformation, Web of Things use cases, etc.).
12:44:08 <jasonjgw> chair: jasonjgw
12:44:15 <jasonjgw> present+
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12:58:02 <Joshue108> present+
12:58:39 <scott_h> present+
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12:59:55 <janina> present+
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13:00:18 <janina> scribe: janina
13:02:06 <jasonjgw> zakim, next item
13:02:06 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- XR Accessibility User Requirements - open issues. -- taken up [from jasonjgw]
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13:02:30 <SteveNoble> present+
13:03:02 <Joshue108> https://github.com/w3c/apa/issues/180
13:03:10 <Joshue108> [New User Need] 4.20 Wayfinding - Review of XR Accessibility User Requirements COGA
13:03:54 <janina> Joshue108: Offers an overview ...
13:04:16 <janina> Joshue108: A new suggested addition ...
13:04:41 <janina> Joshue108: Did discuss on 12 May, esp use case for "mono" and low vision
13:04:57 <janina> Joshue108: Visual issues for people with brain injury
13:05:32 <janina> Joshue108: some COGA users disoriented by stereo sound
13:06:09 <Joshue108> This is David Fazio comment https://github.com/w3c/apa/issues/180#issuecomment-862019107
13:07:16 <Joshue108> JS: I have no complaint with supporting these needs
13:07:31 <Joshue108> But are we feeding requirements to a spec or a user agent?
13:07:40 <Joshue108> Should we make that distinction?
13:07:40 <Judy> q+
13:07:56 <Joshue108> If you look at configuration options in FF - they make everything searchable
13:07:58 <Joshue108> ack Judy
13:07:59 <jasonjgw> Janina: it's unclear whether the requirements pertain to an application or a user agent. Making configuration options searchable is a ptential solution.
13:08:14 <Joshue108> JB: This could feed to spec, browser and content dev
13:08:33 <Joshue108> There are dependencies
13:08:46 <Joshue108> Multilayered
13:08:57 <Joshue108> JS: I think the landmark is the strongest case for the spec
13:09:15 <Joshue108> you may need to use standard kinds of markers for 360 space
13:09:19 <Judy> ack j
13:09:25 <Judy> q+
13:09:28 <Joshue108> The sound stereo/mono is more user agent
13:09:33 <Joshue108> ack Judy
13:09:35 <jasonjgw> Janina: having standard/consistent landmarks is an issue that could be addressed through standardization; mono options are user-agent.
13:10:01 <Joshue108> JB: The ref point is more 3D than 360^0
13:10:53 <Joshue108> JB: David Fazios comments have been really interesting/useful - as they are often representative of other a11y related user needs
13:11:27 <janina> jasonjgw: suggests two pieces here: orientation/nav; and audio option and its discoverability
13:11:31 <Joshue108> JW: There are two pieces, orientation and landmark request and then the audio option and its discoverability
13:11:35 <janina> jasonjgw: suggests discussing in turn
13:11:43 <janina> Joshue108: relates to 184
13:11:45 <Joshue108> https://github.com/w3c/apa/issues/184
13:12:14 <janina> josh: wrong thing ...
13:12:19 <janina> jasonjgw: somewhat related ...
13:12:24 <janina> Joshue108: agrees with jgw
13:12:45 <janina> q+
13:13:18 <Joshue108> q+ to suggest drafting something
13:13:20 <Joshue108> ack jan
13:13:37 <Joshue108> JS: We have two issues here and should maybe talk individually
13:13:59 <Joshue108> On landmarks - do we have standard markations etc? Co-ords and directionality?
13:14:08 <Joshue108> JB: Good question
13:14:15 <jasonjgw> Janina: notes the relevance of 3d directional navigation and notations for it.
13:14:19 <Joshue108> JS: This is maybe more global
13:14:34 <Joshue108> JB: Who is doing this stuff in VR?
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13:15:15 <Joshue108> JW: Are they asking for a reference system?
13:15:29 <Joshue108> Or some kind of mapping capability?
13:16:18 <Joshue108> JW: Its not clear what kind of affordances are wanted here?
13:16:30 <Joshue108> JW: Or is it design guidance?
13:16:31 <Joshue108> q?
13:16:51 <Joshue108> JS: There may be a need for communities to share meta data.
13:16:57 <jasonjgw> Janina: notes needs expressed elsewhere to be able to share metadata for navigational purposes.
13:17:14 <Joshue108> You want to enable this kind of collection and sharing
13:17:32 <Joshue108> RK: There has been research on what is the preferred system for VR..
13:17:56 <Joshue108> Either personal or absolute, or like with regards to plains, north south etc
13:18:12 <Joshue108> In the end, its down to personal experience etc
13:18:25 <Joshue108> Some maps have only North only orientation..
13:18:38 <Joshue108> The map can also move with you - the important thing is both
13:18:52 <Joshue108> What you see and how you provide that orientation.
13:19:28 <Joshue108> JS: In G maps if data is stored in standard notion then presentation aspects can be generated
13:19:48 <Joshue108> JB: Wonders if this is relative or customised?
13:20:01 <Joshue108> RJ: Absolute is in VR and shows itself in VR
13:20:12 <Joshue108> Personal shows how you see it in VR..
13:20:31 <Joshue108> We have similar problems with captioning..
13:20:39 <Joshue108> you can follow the user or set them in space
13:21:08 <Joshue108> Its better to have one ground truth, and adjust that to match perspectives
13:21:22 <Joshue108> Within VR games you will know everything
13:21:28 <Joshue108> JB: Finite space
13:21:39 <Joshue108> JS: Quick number crunching
13:22:18 <janina> Joshue108: Where are we?
13:22:23 <janina> Joshue108: is this a useful addition?
13:22:31 <janina> q+
13:22:43 <janina> brewBelieve it's a nec addition to user reqs
13:22:46 <Joshue108> JB: This is a necessary addition IMO
13:24:00 <janina> josh: are there COGA affordances we need to accomodate?
13:24:32 <Joshue108> ack me
13:24:32 <Zakim> Joshue, you wanted to suggest drafting something
13:24:34 <Joshue108> ack jan
13:24:35 <Judy> ack ja
13:24:46 <Joshue108> JS: I think there is a global need for this
13:24:53 <jasonjgw> Janina notes a common need for positioning for all users.
13:25:03 <Joshue108> Not just an a11y angle - there are things that already exist that are useful
13:25:21 <jasonjgw> Janina: there are specific affordances for specific groups of users that we haven't discussed in detail yet.
13:25:21 <Joshue108> There are also affordances for specific groups with disabilitie
13:25:37 <Joshue108> These things already exist - a kinds
13:25:49 <Joshue108> s/a kinds/all kinds
13:26:02 <Joshue108> JS: Also they should be separate or address diff user needs
13:26:25 <jasonjgw> Janina notes there is existing experience of the needs of different users. Janina suggests data processing to provide for the different needs.
13:27:54 <Joshue108> JS: American printing house for the blind are doing reference points
13:28:53 <Joshue108> JOC: The menu system point about mono is important - we should also add that.
13:29:05 <Joshue108> https://github.com/w3c/apa/issues/181
13:29:13 <Joshue108> [New User Need] 4.21 Understanding Actionable Targets - Review of XR Accessibility User Requirements COGA
13:29:33 <janina> Joshue108: About actionable targets for COGA
13:29:55 <janina> Joshue108: COGA people need to know what targets are actionable and how to interact with them
13:31:07 <janina> Joshue108: understand many objects are directly responsive to interaction
13:31:53 <janina> Joshue108: Unclear how one makes that conspicuous
13:31:54 <Joshue108> q+ to reply to Janina on global affordances
13:32:07 <janina> jasonjgw: what can we generically say?
13:32:11 <Joshue108> ack me
13:32:12 <Zakim> Joshue, you wanted to reply to Janina on global affordances
13:32:57 <janina> josh:Thinking about the unique equestion, are there particular affordances we need to call out?
13:33:01 <janina> q+
13:33:25 <janina> Joshue108: If there cross refs to Content Usable, phps that would help understanding
13:34:12 <janina> zakim, who's here?
13:34:12 <Zakim> Present: jasonjgw, Joshue, scott_h, janina, SteveNoble
13:34:14 <Zakim> On IRC I see rajakushalnagar, SteveNoble, becky, Judy, scott_h, jpaton, janina, Zakim, RRSAgent, trackbot, Joshue108, jasonjgw
13:36:00 <janina> jasonjgw: we need to make objects interactable via api
13:36:56 <Judy> q+
13:37:27 <Joshue108> ack jan
13:37:35 <Joshue108> JS: We are making this harder than needed
13:37:46 <Joshue108> We've had this problem for years..
13:38:06 <Joshue108> How certain controls are used are depended on evironment and previous knowledge etc
13:38:16 <Joshue108> Is this around the need for COGA AT?
13:38:20 <jasonjgw> Janina: notes this is a well understood problem in other domains (e.g., how to interact with a slider depending on assistive technology and operating system/hardware).
13:38:33 <Joshue108> What we need from the spec, is that you can map these things, and that they are not locked into code.
13:38:41 <Joshue108> So things are mappable via APIs
13:38:44 <Joshue108> +1 to Janina
13:38:51 <jasonjgw> Janina: we provide APIs to map user interface actions to control types.
13:39:49 <janina> Judy: recalls essential for some, useful for all applies here
13:39:51 <Joshue108> q+ to suggest we reference content usable etc as a note
13:39:58 <Joshue108> ack judy
13:40:14 <Joshue108> ack me
13:40:14 <Zakim> Joshue, you wanted to suggest we reference content usable etc as a note
13:40:39 <janina> Joshue108: believe one of the best things we can do here is highlight need for apis
13:41:14 <janina> Joshue108: we might gather these as global implementation details we can call out
13:41:24 <janina> Joshue108: it's down to implementations to serve particular pwd needs
13:42:16 <janina> topic: Logistics for RQTF
13:42:53 <Joshue108> <discussion on some issues for participants>
13:45:01 <janina> on mac Textual is an option
13:46:43 <jpaton> present+ John_Paton
13:48:07 <Judy> present+
13:48:15 <Judy> zakim, who's here?
13:48:15 <Zakim> Present: jasonjgw, Joshue, scott_h, janina, SteveNoble, John_Paton, Judy
13:48:17 <Zakim> On IRC I see rajakushalnagar, SteveNoble, becky, Judy, scott_h, jpaton, janina, Zakim, RRSAgent, trackbot, Joshue108, jasonjgw
13:48:26 <jasonjgw> Janina notes that W3C's IRC server is always available; one can join a channel at any time for testing purposes.
13:48:39 <jasonjgw> Janina notes you don't need to wait for a meeting to experiment and test.
13:49:37 <Judy> present+ rajakushalnagar
13:50:55 <Joshue108> q+ to ask around next steps with some XR issues
13:51:02 <Judy> present+ frances
13:52:06 <Joshue108> ack me
13:52:06 <Zakim> Joshue, you wanted to ask around next steps with some XR issues
13:52:27 <janina> jasonjgw: pauses to ask any updates on other areas of work ...
13:52:32 <janina> scott_h: nothing that can't wait
13:53:30 <janina> janina: wanted to flag ongoing remote meetings work
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13:53:48 <janina> Judy: yes, but not everything is organized and integrated; som items just captured as ideas
13:54:03 <janina> Judy: so, please don't be put off we don't have it articulated well yet!
13:54:11 <janina> Judy: but feedback is certainly most welcome
13:54:24 <janina> Judy: notes bottom of doc; we need help getting it properly integrated
13:54:37 <janina> scott_h: will circulate the link on list
13:54:45 <Raja> Test
13:54:53 <Raja> q+
13:55:21 <janina> ack Raja
13:55:30 <janina> raja: irc seems to be working!
13:55:34 <janina> jasonjgw: Excewllent news!
13:55:54 <janina> Judy: will resend joining page
13:56:41 <janina> jasonjgw: think we'll need to do remainder XR next week?
13:56:58 <janina> Joshue108: one quick ...
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13:59:45 <jasonjgw> zakim, bye
13:59:45 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees have been jasonjgw, Joshue, scott_h, janina, SteveNoble, John_Paton, Judy, rajakushalnagar, frances
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13:59:49 <jasonjgw> rrsagent, make minutes
13:59:49 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2021/06/23-rqtf-minutes.html jasonjgw
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