W3C

- DRAFT -

ARIA WG

09 Jul 2022

Attendees

Present
StefanS, jamesn, pkra, MichaelC, Scott_O, MarkMccarthy, jongund, CurtBellew, BGaraventa, harris, carmacleod, Jemma, Sina, carmacleod_, Irfan, Joanmarie_Diggs, Matt_King, jcraig, joanie, Aaron, Leventhal
Regrets
Greta_Krafsig
Chair
JamesNurthen
Scribe
jcraig

Contents


<scribe> scribe: jcraig

New Issue Triage

<jamesn> https://github.com/search?l=&q=is%3Aopen+is%3Aissue+repo%3Aw3c%2Faria+created%3A%3E%3D2020-06-25+repo%3Aw3c%2Faria+repo%3Aw3c%2Faccname+repo%3Aw3c%2Fcore-aam&type=Issues

jamesn: just logged this on an NVDA issue. aria 1.3 agenda+

<jamesn> https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1295

<carmacleod_> jcraig: Not for 1.2. Came up as part of AOM incubator discussion

<carmacleod_> role can be determined by a number of things - aria, dpub, svg, etc

<carmacleod_> jcraig: need a way to find all possible ways, can be useful for web driver, testing, etc

<carmacleod_> jamesn: I'm not sure if this belongs in the aria spec - joanie?

<carmacleod_> jamesn: HTML-AAM takes precedence

<carmacleod_> jcraig: Could be a non-normative document

<carmacleod_> jamesn: Could be a wiki page

<carmacleod_> jcraig: I was talking to Alice and Meredith, and we were saying there's no one definitive place to find all of this info

<carmacleod_> jamesn: Are there any volunteers for this issue?

<carmacleod_> jamesn: I've put a 1.3 milestone on it

I propose later milestone than 1.3

New PR Triage

jamesn: why would anyone want to permalink to an editors draft: re: https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1294

Matt_King: came from the a11y project. reason had to do with querying spec to get list of js obj to get reqs from the spec for specific roles?

jamesn: They want the version to point to a particular commit

<Zakim> MichaelC, you wanted to say permalinks to commit history not supported by tools

MichaelC: the tools don't support it

<jamesn> https://github.com/search?l=&q=is%3Aopen+is%3Apr+repo%3Aw3c%2Faria+created%3A%3E%3D2020-06-25+repo%3Aw3c%2Faria+repo%3Aw3c%2Faccname+repo%3Aw3c%2Fcore-aam&type=Issues

jamesn: matt to address

Meaty topic for next week

jamesn: nothing with enough detail for next week

should I remove the key shortcut issue?

other item is modal dialogs, but need NVDA folks (this time inconvenient in Australia)

add the deep dive tag for future topics

TPAC

<carmacleod_> https://www.w3.org/2020/10/TPAC/Overview.html

jamesn: virtual TPAC in Oct

12-16 for joint group meetings

need to work out which groups we might want to meet with jointly

jcraig: web driver and web components maybe

jamesn: week of 26-30 breakout sessions

generally breakout sessions will be 7–8 AM Pacific

MichaelC: these will be scheduled in advance

carmacleod_: time exceptions are possible

MichaelC: W3C asking Was not to meet during that week due to burnout of remote meetings

jamesn: any benefit to having a longer virtual ARIA meeting during virtual TPAC?

or more frequent meetings?

jcraig: could stagger meetings through the day to match time zone constraints? e.g Alice or Jamie in Australia

ARIA 1.2

jamesn: I think we're done!

merging 2 PRs

once this is done we'll make sure stable is in a good state...

off to joanie tp confirm everything is tested

nothing more for 1.2 in the main branch

in the master branch

Matt_King: confused about branching... will master become 1.3?

jamesn: once things have testable implementations are moved into stable

more work for test writers and implementations, but no more for spec authoring in 1.2

Matt_King: browser bugs tracked there?

joanie: it depends
... Aaron landed "value from combobox" change in Chrome...

jamesn: we should update the wiki listing implementation of that in Chrome

I will go through and verify all of these things are up to date in the wiki

carmacleod_: timeline for Candidate Rec and Proposed Rec?

jamesn: pandemic time :)

MichaelC: timeline for Proposed Rec is Candidate Rec + ~6 weeks

jamesn: 1.2 moving along

ARIA 1.3 Planning

Importance of a label role for generating an accessible name

<jongund> https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1271

jamesn: 1.2 introduced the label role

question: what to do with label role...

Opt 1. keep current

Opt 2: Keep label role, but remove accessible name through encapsulation technique

Opt 3: Remove role and remove accessible name through encapsulation technique

Opt 4: File an issue with WHATWG for specification in HTML spec for label element feature for ARIA enabled widgets

jongund: maybe not ARIA issue. If people want to use this for an ARIA-enabled widget

carmacleod_: form associated custom element... if you use that flag, label element is allowed

https://html.spec.whatwg.org/multipage/custom-elements.html#custom-elements-face-example

face = form associated custom element

jamesn: any benefit to having a label role?

Scott_O: label by association?

jamesn: is there as testing benefit?

Matt_King: depends on what that label does for you

Opt 1 has more benefits than Opt 2

jamesn: asking: is there any benefit to the role itself aside from labeling

Matt_King: might allow double speak avoidance

<carmacleod_> jcraig: VO has a feature where if there's a visible label, you might skip that element entirely in your navigation to avoid double-speak

<carmacleod_> jcraig: I think that's tied to the labelling mechanism, not a role, so I don't think option 2 buys anything

sina: when you ask the q, you assume no benefit, correct?

<carmacleod_> jamesn: just trying to reduce the number of options

<carmacleod_> sina: what about for role parity?

<carmacleod_> jcraig: we don't necessarily need role for role parity if there's another mechanism for parity

joanie: label has a role in ATK and IA2
... if you associate a label with a widget via the 'for' attribute in HTML

but the click functionality is just the UA implementation

Matt_King: label by associate is useful because it bypasses the need for an ID

Scott_O: label has value but not without encapsulation... e.g. click label to focus form element would be on authors to implement. this should be in 1.3 with encapsulation

jamesn: implementors have stated this will be hard

jongund: this will add more confusion for authors

jamesn: should remove from 1.2

joanie: I think it's only in master not 1.2 branch

sina: sounds like we have agreement

jamesn: any objections?

joanie: suggest ednote in master to note this is not on the table for release and will likely be removed

jamesn: AccName is not consistently implemented as-is, we should not complicate it further without a strong need

jongund: effort should be on what the label element does, not a label role

jamesn: element obj reflect will reduce the need for this.

ARIA 1.3 Planning

jamesn: live regions for example

annotations

would love to focus on that

adjourned thanks

Summary of Action Items

Summary of Resolutions

[End of minutes]

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Default Present: StefanS, jamesn, pkra, MichaelC, Scott_O, MarkMccarthy, jongund, CurtBellew, BGaraventa, harris, carmacleod, Jemma, Sina
Present: StefanS jamesn pkra MichaelC Scott_O MarkMccarthy jongund CurtBellew BGaraventa harris carmacleod Jemma Sina carmacleod_ Irfan Joanmarie_Diggs Matt_King jcraig joanie Aaron Leventhal
Regrets: Greta_Krafsig
Found Scribe: jcraig
Inferring ScribeNick: jcraig
Found Date: 09 Jul 2022
People with action items: 

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