<scribe> scribe: jcraig
jamesn: just logged this on an NVDA issue. aria 1.3 agenda+
<jamesn> https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1295
<carmacleod_> jcraig: Not for 1.2. Came up as part of AOM incubator discussion
<carmacleod_> role can be determined by a number of things - aria, dpub, svg, etc
<carmacleod_> jcraig: need a way to find all possible ways, can be useful for web driver, testing, etc
<carmacleod_> jamesn: I'm not sure if this belongs in the aria spec - joanie?
<carmacleod_> jamesn: HTML-AAM takes precedence
<carmacleod_> jcraig: Could be a non-normative document
<carmacleod_> jamesn: Could be a wiki page
<carmacleod_> jcraig: I was talking to Alice and Meredith, and we were saying there's no one definitive place to find all of this info
<carmacleod_> jamesn: Are there any volunteers for this issue?
<carmacleod_> jamesn: I've put a 1.3 milestone on it
I propose later milestone than 1.3
jamesn: why would anyone want to permalink to an editors draft: re: https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1294
Matt_King: came from the a11y project. reason had to do with querying spec to get list of js obj to get reqs from the spec for specific roles?
jamesn: They want the version to point to a particular commit
<Zakim> MichaelC, you wanted to say permalinks to commit history not supported by tools
MichaelC: the tools don't support it
jamesn: matt to address
jamesn: nothing with enough detail for next week
should I remove the key shortcut issue?
other item is modal dialogs, but need NVDA folks (this time inconvenient in Australia)
add the deep dive tag for future topics
<carmacleod_> https://www.w3.org/2020/10/TPAC/Overview.html
jamesn: virtual TPAC in Oct
12-16 for joint group meetings
need to work out which groups we might want to meet with jointly
jcraig: web driver and web components maybe
jamesn: week of 26-30 breakout sessions
generally breakout sessions will be 7–8 AM Pacific
MichaelC: these will be scheduled in advance
carmacleod_: time exceptions are possible
MichaelC: W3C asking Was not to meet during that week due to burnout of remote meetings
jamesn: any benefit to having a longer virtual ARIA meeting during virtual TPAC?
or more frequent meetings?
jcraig: could stagger meetings through the day to match time zone constraints? e.g Alice or Jamie in Australia
jamesn: I think we're done!
merging 2 PRs
once this is done we'll make sure stable is in a good state...
off to joanie tp confirm everything is tested
nothing more for 1.2 in the main branch
in the master branch
Matt_King: confused about branching... will master become 1.3?
jamesn: once things have testable implementations are moved into stable
more work for test writers and implementations, but no more for spec authoring in 1.2
Matt_King: browser bugs tracked there?
joanie: it depends
... Aaron landed "value from combobox" change in Chrome...
jamesn: we should update the wiki listing implementation of that in Chrome
I will go through and verify all of these things are up to date in the wiki
carmacleod_: timeline for Candidate Rec and Proposed Rec?
jamesn: pandemic time :)
MichaelC: timeline for Proposed Rec is Candidate Rec + ~6 weeks
jamesn: 1.2 moving along
<jongund> https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/1271
jamesn: 1.2 introduced the label role
question: what to do with label role...
Opt 1. keep current
Opt 2: Keep label role, but remove accessible name through encapsulation technique
Opt 3: Remove role and remove accessible name through encapsulation technique
Opt 4: File an issue with WHATWG for specification in HTML spec for label element feature for ARIA enabled widgets
jongund: maybe not ARIA issue. If people want to use this for an ARIA-enabled widget
carmacleod_: form associated custom element... if you use that flag, label element is allowed
https://html.spec.whatwg.org/multipage/custom-elements.html#custom-elements-face-example
face = form associated custom element
jamesn: any benefit to having a label role?
Scott_O: label by association?
jamesn: is there as testing benefit?
Matt_King: depends on what that label does for you
Opt 1 has more benefits than Opt 2
jamesn: asking: is there any benefit to the role itself aside from labeling
Matt_King: might allow double speak avoidance
<carmacleod_> jcraig: VO has a feature where if there's a visible label, you might skip that element entirely in your navigation to avoid double-speak
<carmacleod_> jcraig: I think that's tied to the labelling mechanism, not a role, so I don't think option 2 buys anything
sina: when you ask the q, you assume no benefit, correct?
<carmacleod_> jamesn: just trying to reduce the number of options
<carmacleod_> sina: what about for role parity?
<carmacleod_> jcraig: we don't necessarily need role for role parity if there's another mechanism for parity
joanie: label has a role in ATK
and IA2
... if you associate a label with a widget via the 'for'
attribute in HTML
but the click functionality is just the UA implementation
Matt_King: label by associate is useful because it bypasses the need for an ID
Scott_O: label has value but not without encapsulation... e.g. click label to focus form element would be on authors to implement. this should be in 1.3 with encapsulation
jamesn: implementors have stated this will be hard
jongund: this will add more confusion for authors
jamesn: should remove from 1.2
joanie: I think it's only in master not 1.2 branch
sina: sounds like we have agreement
jamesn: any objections?
joanie: suggest ednote in master to note this is not on the table for release and will likely be removed
jamesn: AccName is not consistently implemented as-is, we should not complicate it further without a strong need
jongund: effort should be on what the label element does, not a label role
jamesn: element obj reflect will reduce the need for this.
jamesn: live regions for example
annotations
would love to focus on that
adjourned thanks
This is scribe.perl Revision of Date Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: Irssi_ISO8601_Log_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/web driver and web components maybe/jcraig: web driver and web components maybe/ Succeeded: s/meetings/breakout sessions/ Succeeded: s/once things /jamesn: once things / Succeeded: s/verify all of these things/verify all of these things are up to date in the wiki/ Succeeded: s/PR/Candidate Rec and Proposed Rec/ Succeeded: s/associate/associated/ Succeeded: s/[To be corrected]/a widget via the 'for' attribute in HTML/ Default Present: StefanS, jamesn, pkra, MichaelC, Scott_O, MarkMccarthy, jongund, CurtBellew, BGaraventa, harris, carmacleod, Jemma, Sina Present: StefanS jamesn pkra MichaelC Scott_O MarkMccarthy jongund CurtBellew BGaraventa harris carmacleod Jemma Sina carmacleod_ Irfan Joanmarie_Diggs Matt_King jcraig joanie Aaron Leventhal Regrets: Greta_Krafsig Found Scribe: jcraig Inferring ScribeNick: jcraig Found Date: 09 Jul 2022 People with action items: WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines. You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option. WARNING: IRC log location not specified! (You can ignore this warning if you do not want the generated minutes to contain a link to the original IRC log.)[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]