<Lisa_Seeman> trackbot, start meeting

<Lisa_Seeman> agenda: this

<Lisa_Seeman> Top three SC to review - https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2F2002%2F09%2Fwbs%2F35422%2F2017April5_top3&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb3c3dd6350bd4319fe8808d478369c02%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636265623318247009&sdata=AEJ8Sq2SPxemO0CeQF%2BK7rN09xf4yQOfg1UK%2BilVU88%3D&reserved=0/ (2

<thaddeus> +present Thaddeus

Schedules for Passover and Easter

<Lisa_Seeman> scribe: Mike_Pluke

<kirkwood> Sorry my audio seems to be not working but I can hear.

<kirkwood> Will do!

<kirkwood> I can scribe if you need

<kirkwood> discussing schedules, Mike to facilitate next weeks call

<kirkwood> Next week Lisa is not here

<kirkwood> LS: makes sense to cancel next weeks call due to holdays

<Lisa_Seeman> https://rawgit.com/w3c/coga/master/extension/status.html

<kirkwood> LS: prefer half hour or an hour after WCAG call for xtra call for any sisues

<Lisa_Seeman> 1 pm est

<Jim_S> 6pm UK

<Lisa_Seeman> 6pm englan

<kirkwood> LS: half hour after WCAG 1PM EST for a call

<kirkwood> next ones are Help and Plin language on next weeks call

<Jim_S> Yes

<kirkwood> Should be “Plain Language” in status btw

<Jim_S> Yes OK if you send me the meeting invite for Wednesday

<kirkwood> not “Plane language"

<kirkwood> LS: Anyone who wants to help getting wording right is welcome to be on call

<kirkwood> thanks!@

<kirkwood> no problem

<kirkwood> LS: visual presentation and familiar design we had for April 11 but can’t make call. Wants to know if Wednesday is better. The week following

<kirkwood> LS: Thad can you make Tuesday the 12th?

<kirkwood> Thad: Yes I can

<kirkwood> LS: that takes care of familiar design

<kirkwood> LS: The week after I’d like to change to Wednesday if possible

<kirkwood> LS: The week afer is Andrew Kirkpatrick need to check with him

<kirkwood> LS: minimize errors is me

<kirkwood> LS: we will schedule all of thos over the next three weeks

<kirkwood> LS: next week is passover so going to cancel Moday call but still have call on Wednesday as usual

<kirkwood> LS: also have Thursday calls keeping in sync

<kirkwood> JM: are we moving calls?

<kirkwood> LS: yes

<kirkwood> LS: we have meeting on 10th and will facilitate

<kirkwood> LS: I will send out an email for proposed schedule of calls

News from wacga - augest deadline and feedback is in

<kirkwood> LS: news from WCAG there is two updates. They are adding a deadline midway through August. If things don’t get through then it will not get into 2.1

<kirkwood> LS: they only want to look at three per week

<kirkwood> LS: therefore almost impossbile to get all in by then

<Lisa_Seeman> https://rawgit.com/w3c/coga/master/extension/status.html

<kirkwood> LS: prioritization becomes very important

<kirkwood> LS: please comment

<kirkwood> LS: group 2 very unlikely to make it so order is very important

<kirkwood> LS: I want to suggest a slightly diffeent process. At least group 1 prioritize them to the WCAG list

<kirkwood> LS: until we answere current comments don’t want to waste time

<kirkwood> LS: do we have enough to take a look at SC we got and then work on new wording

<kirkwood> LS: dont want to ask to revew and re review

<kirkwood> MP: notice that help in the first in the list which is currently an existing SC

<kirkwood> LS: we changed it to make ti a new stand alone

<kirkwood> MP: need to make new wording on mine. Chang on request” points to 3.2.5 wondering if same problem with help

<kirkwood> LS: if anyone wants to sche3dule to get improved wording i’m happ to do that

<kirkwood> LS: might redo table to get in sync

<kirkwood> LS: piece we are missing is how far away and need to balance with importance

<kirkwood> LS: help and plain language have had a lot of criticism on onw hand on the other they are realy inportant not sure how to balance them

<kirkwood> JS: i think with plain language we are discussing tomorrow. the major objection is in the testing. The fact the word clear is in it.

<kirkwood> LS: the bullet points aren’t so subjective

<kirkwood> JS: the thing that stands out is the instruction. We will be discussing timorrow.

<kirkwood> JS: the only real diffence is error messages force user to stop but we will get a better idea tomorrow. A and AA difference discussed

<kirkwood> LS: essential information is very different

<kirkwood> MC: let me offer a few thoughts. One of the factors the weay WCAG group reviews the criteria, is the way ouside group reads them.

<kirkwood> MC: people may not understand it and the working group might not understand

<kirkwood> MC: regarding overlaps we werent to worried about the overlaps and shouldnt spend to much time unless its 100 percent overlap. It will be reviewd and timeframe understand that

<kirkwood> MC: in those cases AA shoudn’t repeat A and add something. It should only adds omething

<kirkwood> LS: it will be clearer I’d like EA to be on that call

<kirkwood> JS: might be useful to get a German involved because doesn’t make sense in other language bring up case of double negative and interntinalizing things as much as possible

<kirkwood> LS: can we handle different languages through excaptions

Content is provided that helps users understand complex information, long documents, numerical information, relative and cardinal directions, forms and non-standard controls.

<kirkwood> MP: top of the list help seems almost unfixable in language

<kirkwood> MP: every single element is slightly fuzzy

<kirkwood> MP: do we explain everything?

<kirkwood> MP: we got queries on things like 300 workds, why three hundered etc. it will be a struggle for these

<kirkwood> LS: we got rid of them as techniques. becasue it simportant then we have a clall to address it. if we cant address it we back burner it

<kirkwood> LS: the deadline for feedback has passed think it was end of last week. we should have much more comments now. Intitial view is that comments are mixed

<kirkwood> LS: seems people didn’t fully read it

<Zakim> MichaelC, you wanted to talk about how people read things and to talk about overlaps and to say avoid overlaps between different levels of same things and to and to talk

<kirkwood> MC: one of the issues is how people read things. If they read things a certain way that is an issue for us. I’m workign to get us setup. People still have to click through and address misunde3rstandings we have

<kirkwood> LS: sometimes we need to explain

<kirkwood> LS: how can we tell if subjective or proven, the only subjective element, to say completel sujective there is a balance here is how you do it in a way that isn’t subjecitve.

<kirkwood> LS: its important to invite more people to Monday call

<kirkwood> LS: should we switch this Monday to next weeks call to see if we have all the pople we need?

<kirkwood> LS: will invite more people to call

process (servay or email)

<kirkwood> LS: how do we want to gather all the information? lets get group together for making alternative wording ask people to survey halp and language tomorrow

<kirkwood> LS: do people feel we need more comments for WCAG? If we need more feedback on SC ?

<kirkwood> JMP: think with all comments we have enough and they address those will probably fix most of the prooblems

<kirkwood> JMP/MP

<kirkwood> LS: does that sound reasonable?

<Jan> +1 to reveiwing the SCs by SC managers

review SC, and timelines show status table.sc status: https://rawgit.com/w3c/coga/master/extension/status.html,

<kirkwood> LS: next item is the tables and stuff

<kirkwood> LS: don’t think we can address them ‘

<Lisa_Seeman> https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/30

<Lisa_Seeman> https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/32

<kirkwood> LSL either plain language or help. they are quite tricky

<kirkwood> LS: start discussing now

<kirkwood> LS: language or provide support?

<kirkwood> LS: we have to review all comments wee got for ‘plain language’

<kirkwood> LS: I know there are more comments only see one

<kirkwood> MP: take first thing simple text there were more comments, the reality in an SC makes it very difficult

<kirkwood> LS: just cange it to use the most common 100 words or phrases. without the simple text or without the double negative and maybe have a ‘should’ sentence.

<kirkwood> LS: i think concrete languge is not subjective

<kirkwood> MP: we have addefinition and non literal language sam;ples are included in the difintion

<kirkwood> LS: might want to get rid of ‘common words’ tfor testing issue

<kirkwood> MP: even common words is a problem in speciality words

<kirkwood> LS: how about we address that in the language though

<kirkwood> LS: we have sdiscussed this a lot. there are scripts that wil give you common words

<kirkwood> double negatives do cause confustion

<kirkwood> LS: think we’ll probaly lose singe tense

<kirkwood> LS: instructions in english use present tense and active voice

<kirkwood> JM: could we not just say use present tense and active tense for critical infromation

<kirkwood> LS: scope is only navigational elements

<kirkwood> JS: unless prohibitied by language?

<kirkwood> MP: passive voice is commonly used so its difficult

<kirkwood> MP: in german

<kirkwood> LS: I know there are more comments here how are we meant to find them

<kirkwood> MS: david prepared a table I assume that has references

<thaddeus> I have to leave on the hour. I was out for about a week. I will follow-up on all my SC this evening. I sent an email to Andrew and Josh earlier this morning. Have a good day everyone.

<kirkwood> MC: its not automatic someboday has to do id

David's table: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1XShLFX8fxHYYLn8A6avDwu37w9JfnZCGWvAKBpK9Xo4/edit#gid=684261396

<kirkwood> id/it

<kirkwood> LS: i think we need to ask SC managers to put in the references

<kirkwood> LS: thank you david for putting all the references in

<kirkwood> John K scribing but can’t speak.

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Present: lisa kirkwood Jim_S Mike_Pluke Pietro
Regrets: Mary_Jo_Mueller Steve_Lee EA
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Found Date: 03 Apr 2017
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2017/04/03-coga-minutes.html
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