<richardschwerdtfeger> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-aria/2016Dec/0022.html

<ShaneM> I will be on the call shortly.

<scribe> scribe: janina

<ShaneM> Yay janina!

Updates

rs: We have Microsoft mappings fo dpub aam core aam
... All mappings for dpub are in
... Some Apple still missing for core
... Grphics module roles are in the validator now

stefan: Steve Faulkner says ARIA now also in validator

rs: So, pieces are coming together
... Major next step is testing
... Chrome is making good progress in ARIA support
... Roadblock is getting remaining platforms on the test harness

Testing

jg: Last scheduled meeting, I was the only one present
... Shane and Joanie are doing most of the work
... Got regrets from Ms; Joanie was on vacation
... Happy to reschedule

rs: Should we use this call?

jg: We need the at test adaptors
... I'll mail Joanie and ask about working on Mac test adaptor with Craig

sm: I know it's not started, we're talking Monday on what next steps are

rs: Suggest we do coord during this call

jg: Hoping to get student helpers next semester
... I have time, meanwhile, to get things going
... Shane, I'd like to sit in in the call with Joanie

sm: OK, nothing scheduled yet, will followup
... I've been asked to wait on ATTA changes because of some W3C backend changes
... ATTA driver is complete and works well
... Some things like focus change we can't do--so we'll find another way
... Perhaps via web driver--we'll see
... ATK support is complete--almost
... We haven't heard from Ms on UIA yet
... We have good contact in Mozilla and Google

rs: I'm working to get Freedom Scientific and NVDA involved with us
... Google is aggressively implementing in Canary

ARIA in HTML

rs: Seems we haven't fully addressed the address element--seems like contentinfo

jg: Default mapping is contentinfo, probably none
... Perhaps region?

mk: NO!

rs: No

mk: Prefer implied role being none
... If we had a <p> role, we could put some things there
... We need two kinds of elements/roles with these generics

<clown> https://w3c.github.io/html/grouping-content.html#the-address-element

mk: accessible block

<jongund> https://www.w3.org/wiki/ARIA_in_HTML_Comments

mk: accessible inline thingie
... block, perhaps "chunck" some word like that
... spans don't cause multiple nodes, so can be strung together
... But not divs
... ditto paras

<ShaneM> What if the spans had explicit roles? would there be different chunks?

rs: Probably will with 1.2, so could do something like this
... We could say: "No AIA mapping"

jg: We do that in other cases

rs: Let's say no mapping, add note that we'll create in 1.2
... Michael, can we have a generic block issue? Refer to HTML Address

<Zakim> clown, you wanted to say that there is a new meaning for <address>

mk: So question is there a difference between block and paragraph
... Right now, no
... Often divs are used where it should really be <p>
... And next para key doesn't work, but in some AT it does
... I don't see a semantic difference between div and p

<ShaneM> It would be interesting to hear what DPub has to say about this

mc: Issue-474 ...
... Consider whether this needs to be generic block role

jg: What about dt? Currently list item

rs: Think term

mk: Term can be used outside of list, yes?

<jongund> JG: Do TERM and DEFINITION need to support posinset and setsixe?

<jongund> JG: Since they can be part of a definition list (DL)

sm: dl is ordered list notionally, but does order matter? can have multiple dt
... So how does position matter?

mk: I guess I'm conventional, dt dd dt dd etc
... but dt with multiple dd?

sm: Yes

mk: Interesting

rs: so no set pos

mk: But no role for dl .. Is it really list?

sm: Correct no explicit role, and believe there should be
... I tag as glossary

rs: Should have note about multiple definitions for single term ---

jg: It was just my question
... We don't have a way to indicate which one you're on

mk: No screen readers that distinguish between def and term
... Maybe they will now that we distinguish
... Maybe term and definition are correct, even without pos and set
... We use same role for ol and ul

rs: Isn't css styling used to convert name computation?

mk: yes for numbered lists
... Sometimes you can tell where the next one begins, sometimes not. Not sure why
... Think John's proposal is correct

rs: But, the container, is it list?

mk: yes

rs: Contains a child?

mk: Doesn't say allowed, just has it has these things
... says "list item or group
... So we want to change list

rs: Another issue?

mc: List should also be able to take term definition

mk: In list role for required owned elements, we want to add term and definition

sm: There's no way to link terms and definitions together semantically, and there should be. How do we do that?

mk: Just by their order?
... Points to usage

sm: But not required and we don't require anything

mk: Can't tell the difference yet with an sr
... Don't see this as an important issue

rs: So, think for dl -- add a note that we'll add dt and dd to lists

<jongund> my phone cut out for some reason

<Zakim> ShaneM, you wanted to ask why the position matters?

mk: Aha, JFW does acknowledge them

rs: So, no pos and set, but going to add term and definition as descendants of list in ARIA 1.2
... Also support multiple definitions per term

sm: I tried to use describedby to link terms to definitions in respec
... It's a way to link semantically without a role

rs: Multiple describedby ids would be concatinated, so not a good idea

mk: Shane, are you putting it on term?
... Not sure we want that relationship. Too much verbosity
... JFW is distinguishing dl from other lists, so we should investigate further

rs: Either way? Is there consensus for a separate role?

[crickets]

mc: I would tend to lean towards yes

sm: Didn't we add glossary role in dpub?
... Couldn't one put that on a dl? If they wanted it to be glossary?

mk: Perhaps like at beginning of Sec 5.4 in the ARIA spec--a list with all roles
... Could be strange as a glossary

sm: I don't mean implicit role

mk: Aha!

<clown> https://w3c.github.io/aria/dpub-aam/dpub-aam.html#role-map-glossary

rs: This could be interesting, because refers to another module

mc: Perhaps a path for moving dpub roles into main ARIA

rs: If we really want
... OK, let's say we'll create a glossary role ...

mk: No, not instead of a dl
... In addition to, yes, but not instead of

sm: Agree

rs: So we'll create a definition list role --

<ShaneM> role="definitions"

rs: Is that it?

jg: Yes!
... We covered other items last week

jn: Thought I had an action to look at all these

mk: Yes, for 1.2

<ShaneM> BTW there is a role of definition that is already part of our namespace

rs: So, we're set!

<ShaneM> From the XHTML role module in w3.org/1999/xhtml/vocab

<jongund> https://github.com/w3c/html-aria/issues/57

<jongund> https://github.com/w3c/html-aria/issues/58

mb: Will have my review complete by first week January

rs: So we should wait for any additional comments to make

<jongund> 1+

<jongund> +1

<jamesn> +1

<ShaneM> I am sitting in a bar right now

<ShaneM> cheers

rs: Thaking everyone for an awesome job this year, and best TPAC ever
... Looks like Amelia can Chair for SVG TF
... Happy Hollidays, All!

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Succeeded: s/ATA/ATTA/
Found Scribe: janina
Inferring ScribeNick: janina
Default Present: Janina, ShaneM, Stefan, jongund, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, Joseph_Scheuhammer, matt_king, MichielBijl
Present: Janina ShaneM Stefan jongund Rich_Schwerdtfeger Joseph_Scheuhammer matt_king MichielBijl
Found Date: 15 Dec 2016
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2016/12/15-aria-minutes.html
People with action items: 

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