See also: IRC log
<richardschwerdtfeger> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-aria/2016Dec/0022.html
<ShaneM> I will be on the call shortly.
<scribe> scribe: janina
<ShaneM> Yay janina!
rs: We have Microsoft mappings fo
dpub aam core aam
... All mappings for dpub are in
... Some Apple still missing for core
... Grphics module roles are in the validator now
stefan: Steve Faulkner says ARIA now also in validator
rs: So, pieces are coming
together
... Major next step is testing
... Chrome is making good progress in ARIA support
... Roadblock is getting remaining platforms on the test
harness
jg: Last scheduled meeting, I was
the only one present
... Shane and Joanie are doing most of the work
... Got regrets from Ms; Joanie was on vacation
... Happy to reschedule
rs: Should we use this call?
jg: We need the at test
adaptors
... I'll mail Joanie and ask about working on Mac test adaptor
with Craig
sm: I know it's not started, we're talking Monday on what next steps are
rs: Suggest we do coord during this call
jg: Hoping to get student helpers
next semester
... I have time, meanwhile, to get things going
... Shane, I'd like to sit in in the call with Joanie
sm: OK, nothing scheduled yet,
will followup
... I've been asked to wait on ATTA changes because of some W3C
backend changes
... ATTA driver is complete and works well
... Some things like focus change we can't do--so we'll find
another way
... Perhaps via web driver--we'll see
... ATK support is complete--almost
... We haven't heard from Ms on UIA yet
... We have good contact in Mozilla and Google
rs: I'm working to get Freedom
Scientific and NVDA involved with us
... Google is aggressively implementing in Canary
rs: Seems we haven't fully addressed the address element--seems like contentinfo
jg: Default mapping is
contentinfo, probably none
... Perhaps region?
mk: NO!
rs: No
mk: Prefer implied role being
none
... If we had a <p> role, we could put some things
there
... We need two kinds of elements/roles with these generics
<clown> https://w3c.github.io/html/grouping-content.html#the-address-element
mk: accessible block
<jongund> https://www.w3.org/wiki/ARIA_in_HTML_Comments
mk: accessible inline
thingie
... block, perhaps "chunck" some word like that
... spans don't cause multiple nodes, so can be strung
together
... But not divs
... ditto paras
<ShaneM> What if the spans had explicit roles? would there be different chunks?
rs: Probably will with 1.2, so
could do something like this
... We could say: "No AIA mapping"
jg: We do that in other cases
rs: Let's say no mapping, add
note that we'll create in 1.2
... Michael, can we have a generic block issue? Refer to HTML
Address
<Zakim> clown, you wanted to say that there is a new meaning for <address>
mk: So question is there a
difference between block and paragraph
... Right now, no
... Often divs are used where it should really be
<p>
... And next para key doesn't work, but in some AT it
does
... I don't see a semantic difference between div and p
<ShaneM> It would be interesting to hear what DPub has to say about this
mc: Issue-474 ...
... Consider whether this needs to be generic block role
jg: What about dt? Currently list item
rs: Think term
mk: Term can be used outside of list, yes?
<jongund> JG: Do TERM and DEFINITION need to support posinset and setsixe?
<jongund> JG: Since they can be part of a definition list (DL)
sm: dl is ordered list
notionally, but does order matter? can have multiple dt
... So how does position matter?
mk: I guess I'm conventional, dt
dd dt dd etc
... but dt with multiple dd?
sm: Yes
mk: Interesting
rs: so no set pos
mk: But no role for dl .. Is it really list?
sm: Correct no explicit role, and
believe there should be
... I tag as glossary
rs: Should have note about multiple definitions for single term ---
jg: It was just my question
... We don't have a way to indicate which one you're on
mk: No screen readers that
distinguish between def and term
... Maybe they will now that we distinguish
... Maybe term and definition are correct, even without pos and
set
... We use same role for ol and ul
rs: Isn't css styling used to convert name computation?
mk: yes for numbered lists
... Sometimes you can tell where the next one begins, sometimes
not. Not sure why
... Think John's proposal is correct
rs: But, the container, is it list?
mk: yes
rs: Contains a child?
mk: Doesn't say allowed, just has
it has these things
... says "list item or group
... So we want to change list
rs: Another issue?
mc: List should also be able to take term definition
mk: In list role for required owned elements, we want to add term and definition
sm: There's no way to link terms and definitions together semantically, and there should be. How do we do that?
mk: Just by their order?
... Points to usage
sm: But not required and we don't require anything
mk: Can't tell the difference yet
with an sr
... Don't see this as an important issue
rs: So, think for dl -- add a note that we'll add dt and dd to lists
<jongund> my phone cut out for some reason
<Zakim> ShaneM, you wanted to ask why the position matters?
mk: Aha, JFW does acknowledge them
rs: So, no pos and set, but going
to add term and definition as descendants of list in ARIA
1.2
... Also support multiple definitions per term
sm: I tried to use describedby to
link terms to definitions in respec
... It's a way to link semantically without a role
rs: Multiple describedby ids would be concatinated, so not a good idea
mk: Shane, are you putting it on
term?
... Not sure we want that relationship. Too much
verbosity
... JFW is distinguishing dl from other lists, so we should
investigate further
rs: Either way? Is there consensus for a separate role?
[crickets]
mc: I would tend to lean towards yes
sm: Didn't we add glossary role
in dpub?
... Couldn't one put that on a dl? If they wanted it to be
glossary?
mk: Perhaps like at beginning of
Sec 5.4 in the ARIA spec--a list with all roles
... Could be strange as a glossary
sm: I don't mean implicit role
mk: Aha!
<clown> https://w3c.github.io/aria/dpub-aam/dpub-aam.html#role-map-glossary
rs: This could be interesting, because refers to another module
mc: Perhaps a path for moving dpub roles into main ARIA
rs: If we really want
... OK, let's say we'll create a glossary role ...
mk: No, not instead of a dl
... In addition to, yes, but not instead of
sm: Agree
rs: So we'll create a definition list role --
<ShaneM> role="definitions"
rs: Is that it?
jg: Yes!
... We covered other items last week
jn: Thought I had an action to look at all these
mk: Yes, for 1.2
<ShaneM> BTW there is a role of definition that is already part of our namespace
rs: So, we're set!
<ShaneM> From the XHTML role module in w3.org/1999/xhtml/vocab
<jongund> https://github.com/w3c/html-aria/issues/57
<jongund> https://github.com/w3c/html-aria/issues/58
mb: Will have my review complete by first week January
rs: So we should wait for any additional comments to make
<jongund> 1+
<jongund> +1
<jamesn> +1
<ShaneM> I am sitting in a bar right now
<ShaneM> cheers
rs: Thaking everyone for an
awesome job this year, and best TPAC ever
... Looks like Amelia can Chair for SVG TF
... Happy Hollidays, All!
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.148 of Date: 2016/10/11 12:55:14 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/ATA/ATTA/ Found Scribe: janina Inferring ScribeNick: janina Default Present: Janina, ShaneM, Stefan, jongund, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, Joseph_Scheuhammer, matt_king, MichielBijl Present: Janina ShaneM Stefan jongund Rich_Schwerdtfeger Joseph_Scheuhammer matt_king MichielBijl Found Date: 15 Dec 2016 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2016/12/15-aria-minutes.html People with action items: WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines. You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option.[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]