trackbot, start meeting

log form tuesday at https://www.w3.org/2016/09/20-coga-minutes.

writing SC

roadmap

https://rawgit.com/w3c/coga/master/gap-analysis/table.html

<JohnRochford> Lisa: Start with table of user needs. URL above.

table 3

<JohnRochford> Lisa: Looked, Monday, at what we had for Table 3 success criteria.

<JohnRochford> JohnK: People with memory issues may have trouble with sign posts.

https://w3c.github.io/personalization-semantics/

<JohnRochford> Lisa: There are two cases that need to be handled.

<JohnRochford> Lisa: 1 is semantics.

https://rawgit.com/w3c/coga/master/extension/rewroded%20sc%203.html

<JohnRochford> Lisa: The other is the different steps, e.g., current, done, pending.

<JohnRochford> Lisa: We have COGA explain. Do we need other context-sensitive help?

<JohnRochford> Lisa: There are 3 requirements: more info, extra help, and human help.

<JohnRochford> Lisa: You can add or identify help types even per page.

<JohnRochford> Lisa: We should add another help type: context sensitive.

<JohnRochford> Lisa: We are going over the help criteria to be sure we have what we need.

<JohnRochford> JohnK: Do we need another help type, such as a URI?

<JohnRochford> MikeC: A URI might lead someone to a closed-help system.

<JohnRochford> JohnK: A person with memory or processing issues may be overwhelmed.

<JohnRochford> JohnK: Cognitive load may have to be managed, such as a warning that something will take 20 minutes.

<JohnRochford> JohnK: Do we say "people with memory and cognitive issues", or "people with cognitive disabilities"?

<JohnRochford> Lisa: The latter.

<JohnRochford> "MikeC" above is actually "MikeP".

<JohnRochford> Lisa: Making an interface accessible to someone in an emerging market, who is logging on for the first time, may be the same/similar to a person with an intellectual disability.

<JohnRochford> MikeP: It may be that people with no online experience need extra help/support.

<JohnRochford> Lisa: Ideas for renaming "COGA help"?

<JohnRochford> Lisa: Perhaps "Beginner Help" at least for now.

<JohnRochford> Lisa: People assume others know how to do things, but they may not. And that can include people with a high IQ.

<JohnRochford> MikeP: I don't think there is a need to call out specific disabilities. (This is a response to a question from JohnR.)

<JohnRochford> specific disabilities corrected to specific cognitive disabilities

<JohnRochford> Lisa: Beginner COGA can refer to people with an intellectual disability.

<JohnRochford> JohnK: This applies to people who are aging.

<JohnRochford> Lisa: Do we agree the semantics for help have been properly addressed?

https://rawgit.com/w3c/coga/master/gap-analysis/table.html

<JohnRochford> Lisa: With the addition of "context sensitive" and "beginner".

https://w3c.github.io/personalization-semantics/#explain-and-feedback

<JohnRochford> Neil: I can now bring in my team to help.

<JohnRochford> Neil: I need to get Jim (a member of Neil's team) to help.

<JohnRochford> Lisa: Sharron Rush has offered to write up examples for our success criteria.

<JohnRochford> Neil, it's good to hear your voice on our call.

<JohnRochford> Okay folks, I must go.

topic sc

<kirkwood_> hello

scribe kirkwood_

<kirkwood_> Lisa: we need to state use case as well as we can, and the testability, human or machine

<kirkwood_> Lisa: can put bullet points of examples, need to justify wether we are calling it A or AA

<kirkwood_> Lisa: clear language A for labels and menu items

<kirkwood_> Lisa: gave example of 'mode' to turn air conditioner or heat on and off could be dangerous situation for an aging or cognitive disability. In future AI may handle some things

https://rawgit.com/w3c/coga/master/gap-analysis/table.html

<kirkwood_> on to table 3: provide feed back, undo, understandable language. We have made some changes to 3.3.4 and 3.3.6. What we haven't done is said "it should be reassuring" "is that an issue"

<kirkwood_> Mike The concern is context, "unduly causing alarm" "we don't want to panic" n

<kirkwood_> Lisa: we want it not to be unnecessarily discouraging

<kirkwood_> Lisa: what is the context. We have provide extra help, context sensitive help there is a level 3 AA saying requiring beginner help. Beginning is that AA A

<kirkwood_> Lisa: can we say provde beginner help for forms and critical service as single A

<kirkwood_> Lisa: limiting scope to critical services maybe it can A

<kirkwood_> Mike: I would tend to agree

<kirkwood_> Lisa: we could say provide human help for critical services

<kirkwood_> Mike: I personally think it would be easier to do it.

<kirkwood_> Lisa: should we provide beginner help to get to human help?

A - provide begginer help or easy access to humen help on forms and interactive controls for critcal services 'AA - provide begginer help and easy access to humen help on forms and interactive controls for critcal services '

<kirkwood_> Lisa: in the rewording of the language lets make sure that you are not required to learn new languages to operate the tool

This includes not using abbreviations and terms unless they are the common form to refer to the concept for beginers .

<kirkwood_> Lisa: instead of clear and simple. Debating other words

This includes not using abbreviations words and phrases unless they are the common form to refer to the concept for beginners.

<neilmilliken> this may be difficult due national differences

<neilmilliken> UK boot US trunk

<neilmilliken> both commont terms

Do not require the user to learn new terms or meaning for terms.

<kirkwood_> limited to UI

<kirkwood_> phone dropped calling back in

<Mike_Pluke> I've lost audio - but I still see Me and "Lisa" logged into Webex - but there was a dropout sound prior to losing audio. Has the audio bridge in the meeting logged itself out?

<Mike_Pluke> I'm remaining logged in to Webex

<kirkwood_> no calling bridge will be back

<kirkwood_> EVeryone should call back in

<kirkwood_> Its back on.

having a 20 minet brake. will be back at 11(our time)

<Mike_Pluke> I'm back in - will be there at 11

topic SC

<kirkwood_> retuned from break

<kirkwood_> Mike: thers all the work that has been don in the ICT Task force, aim o fgetting language that would be applicable if you did try to apply WCAG to general software

<kirkwood_> Mike: says the wording may already be in there

Understandable language: Do require the user to use unusale language and provide clear language in headings, important information and important functions that includes:

<kirkwood_> Mike: I will look at

<kirkwood_> Lisa: could you put it IRC channel?

<Mike_Pluke> The WCAG2ICT Task Force Note is at https://www.w3.org/TR/wcag2ict/

<kirkwood_> LS: lets how to make a good success criteria

<Mike_Pluke> First draft new SC wording: Successfully completing a step in a process should not depend on a user memorizing or otherwise mentally processing information presented during that, or an earlier, step.

<Mike_Pluke> My email Mike.Pluke@castle-consult.com

exacept if the proessing and memrisation an essential part of the main task or function of the content.

<Mike_Pluke> Successfully completing a step in a process should not solely depend on a user memorizing or otherwise mentally processing information presented during that, or an earlier, step.

<kirkwood_> Lisa: talking about short menus and wether to give the talking to the operator option

https://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/wiki/Meetings/TPAC_2016#ARIA_WG_Meeting_at_TPAC_2016

aria are dialing in now

<Mike_Pluke> Hi Lisa, Neil, Jim and I are on the Webex

https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/cognitive-a11y-tf/wiki/SC_todo_list

https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/cognitive-a11y-tf/wiki/SC_todo_list

<ddahl> lisa: SC need to be clear and testable and the motivation has to be clear

<ddahl> ...benefits, evidence, why it's in at conformance level A

<ddahl> ...A is extremely important, anywhere should required, AA is required less often and AAA is seldom required (see WCAG spec for specifics)

<ddahl> trackbot, format minutes

<trackbot> Sorry, ddahl, I don't understand 'trackbot, format minutes'. Please refer to <http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc> for help.

taking you though https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/cognitive-a11y-tf/wiki/SC_todo_list

https://rawgit.com/w3c/coga/master/extension/index.html

at https://rawgit.com/w3c/coga/master/extension/rewroded%20sc%203.html

<ddahl> follow instructions at https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/cognitive-a11y-tf/wiki/SC_todo_list

https://rawgit.com/w3c/coga/master/extension/index.html#instructions

(debies)

Provided content and information that help users understand the content

https://rawgit.com/w3c/coga/master/extension/rewroded%20sc%203.html

https://rawgit.com/w3c/coga/master/extension/template.html

<ddahl> ... instructions are to copy the template and then copy the new text into the template

<ddahl> ...clear language 1 and clear language 2 and fill in

<ddahl> ...create a new document based on the template

<ddahl> lisa: turning to Jim's SC on providing help

Dialog step completion

Successfully completing a step in a user-interaction dialog does not depend on a user memorizing or otherwise mentally processing information presented during that, or an earlier, step.

Exception: This success criterion does not apply if memorizing or otherwise mentally processing information is the primary purpose of the dialog step (e.g. a step in a game which deliberately tests the player’s memory skills).

<ddahl> mike: every IVR system would fail this SC

<ddahl> lisa: the choices should be clear enough so that you can pick the one you hear

<ddahl> mike: but that is rare

<ddahl> mike: techniques -- make sure system maps one to one to options so user can pick, make human help available or @@

https://www.w3.org/TR/webauthn/

<Mike_Pluke> You just lost your Webex connection.

yes

we did

<Mike_Pluke> Probably the world telling us "time is up"

i think so, do u want me to try nand redial?

<Mike_Pluke> If you can find an effective way to link to the Web Authentication stuff I have no objection.

<Mike_Pluke> I think that I probably need to go now anyway - so bye for now.

<Mike_Pluke> Nothing scheduled for tomorrow - correct?

ok

notheing

thanks so much

can u look at the speck and see if you are comfortable putting it back in

<Mike_Pluke> "Putting it back in" implies it was in before. I don't understand that.

i need to find it

it was a proposal

<Mike_Pluke> Let me know by email - I'll keep an eye out this evening.

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