See also: IRC log
<clown> agenda: this
<scribe> scribe: joanie
RS: What I'd like to do is pull in what we have and keep working on it.
<clown> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/action2102/core-aam/core-aam.html
RS: Figure was one... It's a cat herding exercise.
<clown> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/action2102/core-aam/core-aam.html#role-map-figure
JS: URL to your branch is above.
RS: I put this in here, but what I'm trying to do is get an answer from them about the mappings.
JS: Who is "them"? Everybody?
RS: Yes.
... The big problem is relations.
... For UIA, Cynthia was away.
... I've not yet talked to James Craig.
... And then with Form, I thought we were all set.
... But then there was discussion regarding deprecation of the
role.
... I was talking to Alex Surkov, but then he went away
unexpectedly (to me).
... On details, and also errormessage, what we did manage to
get is two separate relationships.
<clown> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/action2102/core-aam/core-aam.html#ariaDetails
RS: Surkov gave us these
relationships.
... But Jamie wants to concatenate strings.
... That's problematic and many people have
issues/concerns.
... And then Jamie went away.
... I asked Matt to respond with his concerns on the list,
which he did.
... And I've not heard another word from anyone on this
matter.
JS: So what you've got is a relation error message.
RS: Another thing is we don't
have consensus on is reverse relations.
... Joanie would like this.
... But Jamie/Alex indicate it's expensive.
... Sure, but then the AT cannot get back unless they cache
it.
... IA2's IDL hasn't been updated in two years.
... I would pull this in, leave the action item open.
... Because people keep saying "but I don't see such-and-such
in the draft.
... So merging it in will solve that.
JS: If I run into a problem, e.g.
with merge conflicts, I'll give it back to you.
... Otherwise, I'll do it before next Tuesday.
RS: What if I make changes?
JS: Then I'll have the latest and
will merge it in.
... So we should coordinate.
... I'll tell you when I'm about to merge so you can stop
making changes.
... I'll aim for tomorrow.
... Any questions about action-2102?
<clown> https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/428
JS: Cynthia filed this on github,
rather than tracker.
... (URL above)
... (Reads from github issue)
... I'm not sure if she wants this information duplicated for
each type.
RS: So you can have expand/collapse for a region.
<clown> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/action2102/core-aam/core-aam.html#ariaHaspopupTrue
JS: This is just for
aria-haspopup.
... There's true, false, dialog, listbox, ... a bunch.
... I assume you don't put expanded on false.
... But I guess for the others, like dialog, it's
expandable.
... I'll respond on the issue now.
RS: The only way you can do it is to put aria-haspop="false" on it.
<clown> https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/428
JS: If you refresh the issue (URL above), you'll see my response.
JS: We've already discussed that as part of 2102.
RS: Yes, I lumped them altogether.
JS: I should link these issues to
one another.
... They're now linked.
RS: Figure is in there, so is feed.
<clown> action-2083
<trackbot> action-2083 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Review and update ATK/AT-SPI2 states in Core AAM -- due 2016-06-21 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/2083
JS: I think I did this.
JD: It says it's assigned back to me, but I thought we discussed this and I had nothing more to do.
<clown> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/action2102/core-aam/core-aam.html#ariaReadonlyTrue
<clown> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#ariaReadonlyTrue
JS: If you go to the master branch URL above, ATK/AT-SPI now says (Joseph reads).
JD: Looks good to me.
JS: So I think we can close this.
JD: I have something to mention, but maybe it's a different issue/action.
JS: OK, let me close the action.
<clown> https://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/issues/676
JD: I had forgotten that there is a one-way AtkRelation type for POPUP_FOR.
JS: Does anyone actually use it?
JD: Gtk+ does.
... So I would guess Surkov won't be jazzed about this, but it
would be nice to add this to the Core AAM.
... And if he flat out rejects it, we can always remove
it.
... Thoughts?
JS: Fine with me. Is there an IA2 version?
JD: I don't know.
JS: Turns out there is.
... Want to create an action?
joseph to add RELATION_POPUP_FOR for ATK/AT-SPI2 for the element referenced by aria-haspopup.
action joseph to add RELATION_POPUP_FOR for ATK/AT-SPI2 for the element referenced by aria-haspopup.
<trackbot> Created ACTION-2114 - Add relation_popup_for for atk/at-spi2 for the element referenced by aria-haspopup. [on Joseph Scheuhammer - due 2016-09-13].
JS: My question is what table entry does this go into?
JD: I don't know.
... I'm guessing you should add text to the tables with
aria-haspopup, for all but false.
... Although that's a lot of duplication and not especially
elegant, but I have no better suggestions at this time.
JS: And this is like Cynthia's
expand/collapse control pattern mapping.
... I guess she wants me to add something about aria-expanded
not specified.
... If the author hasn't added aria-expanded, that's a bad
thing.
... And in UIA, if it's missing it defaults to collapsed.
<clown> action-2114?
<trackbot> action-2114 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Add relation_popup_for for atk/at-spi2 for the element referenced by aria-haspopup. -- due 2016-09-13 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/2114
JS: I think we dealt with this, but it was still open.
<clown> issue-663
<trackbot> issue-663 -- Presentational children of some widgets have doclick actions if make presentational who handles the click -- open
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/issues/663
JS: Rich, I wanted to
double-check with you: Is this done?
... You (Rich) raised this a long time ago.
RS: Well, if you have a presentational child with a doclick, then it's no longer presentational.
JS: The spec references presentational conflict resolution.
<clown> https://w3c.github.io/aria/aria/aria.html#conflict_resolution_presentation_none
JS: The link above is for that
section.
... (Reads from the spec)
RS: Yes, it's been addressed in this section. It's no longer presentational.
JS: So we can close this issue?
RS: Correct.
JS: Closed.
JS: Cynthia is not here.
<clown> issue-706?
<trackbot> issue-706 -- Describe/define AAPI managed states -- open
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/issues/706
JS: This is that issue about saying something regarding states managed by the user agent.
<clown> action-980?
<trackbot> action-980 -- Cynthia Shelly to Describe/define managed aria related states: aria-setsize, aria-posinset, aria-level, focused, focusable with reference to section 5.5 bullet 1 of the UAIG. -- due 2016-07-19 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/980
JS: Cynthia had questions about
this.
... She has some documention.
... Cynthia sent you (Rich) email, I believe it was last
week.
... And you answered her.
RS: Yes, there are certain things
that the browser does. If something is not visible in the
window because it's scrolled off, the user agent has states to
indicate it's offscreen.
... Focus is a managed state.
... Mozilla, I think, has a whole list of these on their
site.
<clown> https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/Accessibility/AT-APIs/MSAA/States
JS: Cynthia links to the above list.
RS: Some of these states are managed.
JD: Busy strikes me as managed,
like focus.
... I think many of these states can be managed as they are
set, unset, and have associated signal even without any
ARIA.
JS: This issue has been around
for quite some time, and it seems to be hard to pin it
down.
... My suggestion is that we check with Cynthia next week.
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.144 of Date: 2015/11/17 08:39:34 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/aria-haspopup/aria-expanded/ Found embedded ScribeOptions: -final *** RESTARTING DUE TO EMBEDDED OPTIONS *** Found Scribe: joanie Inferring ScribeNick: joanie Default Present: Joseph_Scheuhammer, Joanmarie_Diggs, Bryan_Garaventa, Richard_Schwerdtfeger Present: Joseph_Scheuhammer Joanmarie_Diggs Bryan_Garaventa Richard_Schwerdtfeger Found Date: 06 Sep 2016 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2016/09/06-aapi-minutes.html People with action items: WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines. You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option.[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]