W3C

- DRAFT -

Accessible Platform Architectures Working Group Teleconference

15 Jun 2016

See also: IRC log

Attendees

Present
Janina, Joanmarie_Diggs, JF, fesch, MichaelC, Léonie, LJWatson, ShaneM
Regrets
Chair
Janina
Scribe
ShaneM

Contents


preview agenda with items from two minutes

<Lisa_Seeman> password for webex?

<scribe> scribe: ShaneM

Cynthia: Progress happening on test automation.
... meeting scheduled on friday.
... Jon gunderson is organizing the meeting on Friday.

MichaelC: I have been meaning to ask that the conversation get moved to the aria-testing mailing list.
... that list might be open subscription - I am not sure.

JF: it would be nice to get that more publicized.

MichaelC: it has been posted to ARIA list and put on the page.

Cyns: Let's wait until things settle out before we start pulling in more people.

JF: There is a firm date of October for the 508 refresh
... there is a concern that it get done before the general election so it does not fall by the wayside again.

janina_: any discussion of an ADA refresh?

JF: Not that I noticed.

janina_: There is an expectation that a refresh would put more requirements on web sites (Title III etc.)

JF: What I heard is third hand...

TPAC 2016 Planning

Nothing new to report on the agenda.

We will be very busy all week in two rooms.

There has been a discussion about getting together in a breakout on Wednesday about horizontal review groups.

scribe: not decided yet, but it could happen. There is a lot of interest.

janina_: chair's breakfast is usually on Tuesday.

COGA FPWD Update -- Lisa, Michael

Lisa_Seeman: would like to publish two documents. gap analysis and roadmap, and then a companion document on issue papers

<Lisa_Seeman> http://w3c.github.io/coga/gap-analysis/

<Lisa_Seeman> http://w3c.github.io/coga/issue-papers/

Lisa_Seeman: there is a lot of content in it, but there will be more and improvements.
... we are looking forward to feedback. publish sooner rather than later and then make changes.
... beginning sections are more mature.

janina_: we need a resolution here to publish, then a CFC.
... is WCAG going to run their process as well?

Lisa_Seeman: They are running through their process. There was some discussion about another appendix on WCAG techniques. We are removing appendix 2 until they have time to generate some feedback on it.

janina_: so they will take it up on their own?

Lisa_Seeman: Yes.

MichaelC: I am not sure if it is a separate document. It might just return as an appendix to the gap analysis once they have reviewed it separately.

RESOLUTION: Publish the two documents referenced by Lisa above as FPWD.

<Lisa_Seeman> thank you all

RQTF Update & Recruiting -- Jason

janina_: there were no objections to launching the task force. Home page is getting put together and identify low hanging fruit.

slightlyoff: CFC has passed. Work statement is approved. Begun work on text for announcement and invitation to participate.
... areas of potential investigation are identified
... authentication, personalization, etc.
... any decisions about actual work items will be made in the context of the group.
... we are mostly set up at this point. Just need to make the formal announcement.

<MichaelC> Research Questions Task Force

slightlyoff: some possibility of meeting at TPAC.

janina_: Recruiting?
... we should ask the group here to help identify people who would shine in this group.
... particularly from our larger members.
... expand our ability to think creatively!

slightlyoff: once we have the announcement ready we will circulate that to people in the research community.
... everyone here is of course welcome to circulate it further as well.

janina_: hopefully we will be ready to look at telecon times etc by next week's meeting.

Actions Checkin (Specs) https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/products/8

janina_: screen capture is very interesting. Nothing to comment on yet. Probably will be.

ACTION-2061

<trackbot> ACTION-2061 -- Janina Sajka to Review screen capture https://www.w3.org/tr/screen-capture/ -- due 2016-06-15 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/actions/2061

<MichaelC> action-2061 due 6 months

<trackbot> Set action-2061 Review screen capture https://www.w3.org/tr/screen-capture/ due date to 2016-12-15.

MichaelC: marking as spec review deferred. move the action out 6 months.

ACTION-2060

<trackbot> ACTION-2060 -- Janina Sajka to Review media capture from dom elements https://www.w3.org/tr/mediacapture-fromelement/ -- due 2016-06-15 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/actions/2060

janina_: looked at multi streams. They are accomodating them.
... unclear how the pieces fit together, but no issues with this spec.

<MichaelC> close action-2060

<trackbot> Closed action-2060.

ACTION-2059

<trackbot> ACTION-2059 -- Fred Esch to Review css pseudo-elements module level 4 https://www.w3.org/tr/css-pseudo-4/ -- due 2016-06-15 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/actions/2059

On the agenda for later...

ACTION-2058

<trackbot> ACTION-2058 -- Cynthia Shelly to Review css properties and values api level 1 https://www.w3.org/tr/css-properties-values-api-1/ -- due 2016-06-15 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/actions/2058

Cyns: Not done yet.

<MichaelC> action-2058 due 2 weeks

<trackbot> Set action-2058 Review css properties and values api level 1 https://www.w3.org/tr/css-properties-values-api-1/ due date to 2016-06-29.

ACTION-2057

<trackbot> ACTION-2057 -- Michael Cooper to Review css properties and values api level 1 https://www.w3.org/tr/css-properties-values-api-1/ -- due 2016-06-15 -- PENDINGREVIEW

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/actions/2057

MichaelC: Let's discuss this next week. I sent some notes to the list.
... this module might not have issues, but things that use it might. Not clear yet.

ACTION-2056

<trackbot> ACTION-2056 -- Fred Esch to Review css properties and values api level 1 https://www.w3.org/tr/css-properties-values-api-1/ -- due 2016-06-15 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/actions/2056

<MichaelC> action-2056 due 2 weeks

<trackbot> Set action-2056 Review css properties and values api level 1 https://www.w3.org/tr/css-properties-values-api-1/ due date to 2016-06-29.

Not done yet.

ACTION-2055

<trackbot> ACTION-2055 -- Fred Esch to Review css painting api level 1 https://www.w3.org/tr/css-paint-api-1/ -- due 2016-06-15 -- PENDINGREVIEW

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/actions/2055

On agenda for later.

ACTION-2053

<trackbot> ACTION-2053 -- Shane McCarron to Review https://www.w3.org/tr/webauthn/ web authentication: a web api for accessing scoped credentials -- due 2016-06-08 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/actions/2053

Doesn't have UI implications but has human interface specifications. Let's discuss on list.

<MichaelC> action-2053 due 2 weeks

<trackbot> Set action-2053 Review https://www.w3.org/tr/webauthn/ web authentication: a web api for accessing scoped credentials due date to 2016-06-29.

MichaelC: I don't want to lose track of this one.

janina_: let's leave it open and discuss in two weeks.

ACTION-2051

<trackbot> ACTION-2051 -- Fred Esch to Review https://www.w3.org/tr/css-overflow-3/ css overflow module level 3 -- due 2016-06-15 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/actions/2051

Not sure what should be done with this. It is really only about clipping and scrolling.

Cyns: We should put it on the list of things that need interaction with A11Y APIs.
... there are states and properties that might interact with scrolling and viewports.

MichaelC: so should be be part of the CSS-AAM?

Cyns: It is on the list of specs already.

MichaelC: tagged with CSS-AAM. are we closing or reassigning?
... I prefer closing it.

<MichaelC> close action-2051

<trackbot> Closed action-2051.

fesch: need to update the wiki

MichaelC: if you could update the wiki with the information about scrolling that would be helpful.

janina_: for example there are some things about off-screen data that should be captured.

fesch: you don't know what is clipped or not. ATs will read it whether it is clipped or not. That's why I pinged them. Not sure if that is a good thing or a bad thing.

ACTION-2050

<trackbot> ACTION-2050 -- Janina Sajka to Review https://www.w3.org/tr/audio-output/ audio output devices api -- due 2016-06-15 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/actions/2050

janina_: very eary draft. exactly what we contemplated in the MAUR. Let's bring back in 6 months.
... it is an implementation of part of the functionality from the web audio API.

<MichaelC> action-2050 due 6 months

<trackbot> Set action-2050 Review https://www.w3.org/tr/audio-output/ audio output devices api due date to 2016-12-15.

ACTION-2049

<trackbot> ACTION-2049 -- Janina Sajka to Review https://www.w3.org/tr/mediacapture-streams/ media capture and streams -- due 2016-06-15 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/actions/2049

janina_: it is about microphones and webcams. It incorporates the MAUR concepts. I think we are good.

<MichaelC> close action-2049

<trackbot> Closed action-2049.

ACTION-2047

<trackbot> ACTION-2047 -- Michiel Bijl to Review css grid layout https://www.w3.org/tr/css-grid-1/ -- due 2016-06-15 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/actions/2047

MichielBijl: did not yet get to that.

MichaelC: put off for two weeks

<MichaelC> action-2047 due 2 weeks

<trackbot> Set action-2047 Review css grid layout https://www.w3.org/tr/css-grid-1/ due date to 2016-06-29.

janina_: this is related to 2011 too.

<MichaelC> action-2011 due 2 weeks

<trackbot> Set action-2011 Janina to draft examples of how the hand-wavey stuff in CSS Transitions accessibility statement could be solidified due date to 2016-06-29.

janina_: push out 2011 two weeks also

<MichaelC> action-2047: also see action-2011

<trackbot> Notes added to action-2047 Review css grid layout https://www.w3.org/tr/css-grid-1/.

<MichaelC> action-2011: also see action-2047

<trackbot> Notes added to action-2011 Janina to draft examples of how the hand-wavey stuff in CSS Transitions accessibility statement could be solidified.

ACTION-2046

<trackbot> ACTION-2046 -- Cynthia Shelly to Add headings for ordering in css aam http://github/w3c/aria/css-aam/css-aam.html -- due 2016-06-15 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/actions/2046

<MichaelC> action-2046 due 1 week

<trackbot> Set action-2046 Add headings for ordering in css aam http://github/w3c/aria/css-aam/css-aam.html due date to 2016-06-22.

Cyns: I have the list in a non-shareable format. Running it by a couple of people internally then will put onto the list or github.

ACTION-2040

<trackbot> ACTION-2040 -- John Foliot to Reach out to ai2 on css scroll snap points -- due 2016-06-15 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/actions/2040

JF: not yet done. trying to coordinate with Leonie.

janina_: let's do this sooner than later. What she is asking is something they might want to do at the same time (pointer lock)

JF: need another week.

<MichaelC> action-2040 due 1 week

<trackbot> Set action-2040 Reach out to ai2 on css scroll snap points due date to 2016-06-22.

ACTION-2026

<trackbot> ACTION-2026 -- Lisa Seeman to Review secure contexts https://www.w3.org/tr/powerful-features/ -- due 2016-04-27 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/actions/2026

<MichaelC> action-2026 due 2 weeks

<trackbot> Set action-2026 Review secure contexts https://www.w3.org/tr/powerful-features/ due date to 2016-06-29.

new on TR http://www.w3.org/TR/tr-status-drafts.html

MichaelC: there are no new publications
... there is churn but we dont know if it is meaningful.

Action-2059 CSS Pseudo Elements http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-apa/2016Jun/0035.html

ACTION-2059

<trackbot> ACTION-2059 -- Fred Esch to Review css pseudo-elements module level 4 https://www.w3.org/tr/css-pseudo-4/ -- due 2016-06-15 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/actions/2059

Action-2055 CSS Painting http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-apa/2016Jun/0031.html

ACTION-2055

<trackbot> ACTION-2055 -- Fred Esch to Review css painting api level 1 https://www.w3.org/tr/css-paint-api-1/ -- due 2016-06-15 -- PENDINGREVIEW

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/actions/2055

fesch: very low level. don't see any A11Y concerns.

<fesch> The contents of the resulting image are not designed to be accessible. Authors should communicate any useful information through the standard accessibility APIs.

fesch: we might want to revisit it in the future. If so, very low priority. It is very empty right now.

janina_: is 6 months too soon?

MichaelC: I am inclined to go with 6 months..

Action-2059 CSS Pseudo Elements http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-apa/2016Jun/0035.html

ACTION-2059

<trackbot> ACTION-2059 -- Fred Esch to Review css pseudo-elements module level 4 https://www.w3.org/tr/css-pseudo-4/ -- due 2016-06-15 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/actions/2059

fesch: all sorts of a11y concerns.

<MichaelC> action-2055 due 6 months

<trackbot> Set action-2055 Review css painting api level 1 https://www.w3.org/tr/css-paint-api-1/ due date to 2016-12-15.

fesch: highlight pseudo elements. visual changes that might not be available to AT.

They have security concerns. The UA should not be able to report these things. Usually spelling mistakes etc.

scribe: I think that visually changing things could be challenging for low vision users. There should at least be a note that says do this right.
... there are also concerns about before, after, and **** are a concern. they cannot be resized for example.

fesch: The other thing is that in the CSS obejct model it may contain rules for inclusion in the A11Y tree.
... they say that things can be source of events. If things can be a source of events, then it needs to be in the A11Y tree.
... I dont know if that is relevant to the CSS-AAM and CORE-AAM.

Lisa_Seeman: I had an idea... not sure we might want to think through it now...
... should there be a standardized way of mapping css classes or pseudo classes to attributes or aria characteristics.
... for example when this thing is in use, some thing is disabled. So that a designer would know that when using a class certain effects happen automatically.
... instead of each person using a class having to put in the ARIA label, have something just happen.

JF: I think that this is a really good idea. We have kicked this around before. Tab Atkins at google has looked at it with cascading attribute sheets.
... classes are used for lots of things (e.g., event callbacks).
... we tried to do a proof of concept around this idea. But it would be a big issue. It is a brand new way of thinking about things.

<Zakim> fesch, you wanted to say CSS has a doc about adding variables/values

JF: maybe this is something we could take to the research question task force to see if there is an interest.

fesch: CSS does have a doc about setting variables / values for css. It might be relevant.

<fesch> https://www.w3.org/TR/css-properties-values-api-1/

Cyns: The CSS group has done a lot of work to make it easier to find their stuff on their home page.
... I wasn't thinking abotu the variable one. It is interesting that might be something we could leverage.

janina_: I had not looked recently.

Cyns: it is pretty good now.

MichaelC: there are missing links in the informative references section...

Lisa_Seeman: my quick look at this is that they are not really supporting our use cases. We could ask them to do so though!

janina_: we have known for a long time that we need to pay more attention to CSS. We are getting better at that. One proposal is that a task force would have responsibility and create a CSS application api mappings document (and maybe other deliverables).
... task force would be APA, ARIA, and CSS. Not a lot of enthusiasm yet. But once ARIA 1.1 is out maybe.

MichaelC: what should we do in the wiki?

janina_: is this appropriate for the CSS-AAM?

fesch: yes, definitely

<MichaelC> close action-2059

<trackbot> Closed action-2059.

fesch: someone should write a blurb about the highlight pseudo elements since they are only visual.
... do we want to do that right now?

janina_: why not - sounds like very low hanging fruit.

MichaelC: what's the process?

janina_: draft it, send to list, if no objections Michael or Janina send on.
... who wants to do it?

<<<crickets>>>

janina_: I guess it falls to me.

Action-2023 Pointer Lock http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-apa/2016Apr/0033.html

<janina_> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-apa/2016Jun/0038.html

janina_: we got comments from leonie. there are some questions directed to AI.
... let's associate 2023 with the snap points action that jf has.

<MichaelC> action-2023: also see action-2040

<trackbot> Notes added to action-2023 John to ask Aaron for input on Pointer Lock https://www.w3.org/TR/pointerlock/.

<MichaelC> action-2040: also see action-2023

<trackbot> Notes added to action-2040 Reach out to ai2 on css scroll snap points.

trackbot, end meeting

Summary of Action Items

Summary of Resolutions

  1. Publish the two documents referenced by Lisa above as FPWD.
[End of minutes]

Minutes formatted by David Booth's scribe.perl version 1.144 (CVS log)
$Date: 2016/06/15 17:05:01 $

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This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.144  of Date: 2015/11/17 08:39:34  
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Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)

Succeeded: s/rviewed/reviewed/
Succeeded: s/Sure/I am inclined to go with 6 months./
Succeeded: s/nwo/now/
Found Scribe: ShaneM
Inferring ScribeNick: ShaneM
Default Present: Janina, Joanmarie_Diggs, JF, fesch, MichaelC, Léonie, LJWatson, ShaneM
Present: Janina Joanmarie_Diggs JF fesch MichaelC Léonie LJWatson ShaneM
Found Date: 15 Jun 2016
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2016/06/15-apa-minutes.html
People with action items: 

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