Accessible Rich Internet Applications Working Group Teleconference

10 Mar 2016

See also: IRC log


Joanmarie_Diggs, JaeunJemmaku, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, fesch, Joseph_Scheuhammer, jongund, Tzviya, ShaneM


<Rich> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-aria/2016Mar/0086.html

Scribe; Stefan

<scribe> Scribe:Stefan

<scribe> Scribe: Stefan

Heartbeat Drafts

Rich: docunments not ready yet

Rich. we can leave this after CSUN

MC: Just joined

Rich: list for heartbeats
... DPUB lotta changes
... once done tomorrow you can take this with you
... noticed about spinbutton?

MC: not noticed yet

Rich: there were actions(deprecated)

2021 action

Rich: can be closed

<jemma> +q

RESOLUTION: Core AAM Core Name + Description DPUB-ARIA DPUB-AAM they will be published as heartbeat drafts


Matt: new branch created

<Rich> Action-1490?

<trackbot> Action-1490 -- Matthew King to Propose spec text edit for issue-610: comboboxes should allow complex children elements -- due 2016-02-03 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1490

<mck> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/action1490-combobox/aria/aria.html#combobox

Matt: to summarize changes .. lets go pyragraph by paragraph
... made clear that it is a composite widget
... popup helps to set value of combobox

<jemma> A composite widget containing a single-line textbox that can trigger an associated pop-up, such as a listbox or grid, for helping the user set the value of the textbox.

<jemma> I copied definition

Rich: should be "contains" popup

<jemma> Authors must ensure an element with role combobox contains or owns an element with role textbox and that the textbox has aria-multiline set to false. If the combobox provides autocompletion behavior for the text input as described in aria-autocomplete, authors should set aria-autocomplete on the textbox element to the value that corresponds to the provided behavior.

Matt: contains is not correct
... distinguishing behaviour is that its textbox can trigger popup element

Rich: do you want to say that it causes annother widget to popup

Matt: ok I will read ovwer the wording
... (goes ober wording)
... how do you want me to call the thing that pops up?

Rich: Listbox ....

Matt: Bryan provided useful feedback on the list
... we should nt be overly prescriptive in the combination of elements

Rich: we get the testing afterwards

Cynthia: custom autocomplete of combobox ?

Matt: no changes for this in the branch
... autocomplete is aan author must
... wording s okay i think
... what appropriate value for autocomplete

Rich: it's ok

Brian: combobox on textbox is also valid?

Matt: coding pattern described here is different from aria 1.0
... but this desn't mean that both patterns should not supported by AT

Brian: its not in 1.1. spec

Matt: they are complmentory
... 1.0 pattern will fade away

Brian: "should" is the problem in the wording

Matt: I disagree with the fact that 1.0 implementations are full accessible
... there is need for improvement, but we don't want to break compatibility
... we encourage to use the new pattern

Joseph: was an authors must autocomplete? no it was a should

<Zakim> clown, you wanted to ask whether the "authors SHOULD set autocomplete" is different from the previous version.

Joseph: a SHOULD means MUST unless there is a good reason not to. What is that reason?
... if group decides to elevate, fine with me

Rich: we should do it
... any objections?

Matt: will change testcase

Rich: test tools will have to change for that

Jon: when autocomplete=false a must?
... autocomplete=none what will screen rereader do?

Cynthia: we can discuss autocomplete offline

still action Action 1490: Combobox

<Rich> ACTION: matt update definition of aria-autocomplete [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/03/10-aria-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> 'matt' is an ambiguous username. Please try a different identifier, such as family name or username (e.g., mgarrish, mking3).

<Rich> ACTION: mking3 update definition of aria-autocomplete [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/03/10-aria-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-2039 - Update definition of aria-autocomplete [on Matthew King - due 2016-03-17].

Matt: expanded/collapsed in 3rd paragraph
... again MUST is used
... implicit value of expanded=false on combobox


Matt: is part of the characteristics table

Rich: why implicit? you are requiring it anyways

rrrsagent, make minutes

Rich: if MUST we have to set implicit states, too

Matt: you want to leave it in the table? its covered by AAM

Joseph: if you leave it off it is still there implicitely

Rich: a warning for a required state in test tools will be raised

Matt: I thinkthis is editorial
... the last sentence

Joseph: for aria-expandable this WOULD be required

Bryan: I'm fine when I'm following the spec

Matt: frm a checking standpoint you MUST do it in both cases

Joseph: user agents do it anyway

Rich: we had a round with test tools... compliance?

Matt: all tools are based on author's must ..
... Fred this is an author's must staement

Fred: why do you need it telling an eveloper when they are doing wrong?

Shane: basic spec philosophy question ..

Matt: running out of time

Rich: go ahead

Matt: two paragraphs remain
... cntains or owns annother element that is a popup ..

Rich: it could be landmark .. narrow down scope please

Matt: let's think about purpose of role attribute
... describe behaviours in a way to comprehend the inner interaction pattern
... in this case quite simple .. textbox, popup and value
... interaction pattern matters
... we should not limit things in popups

Cynthia: in popup is list of things

Matt: no this is too limiting
... no reason to have complicated conventions to limit that
... purpose of aria is to help user understand interaction model we dont need to be super prespictive

(Matt + Cynthia discussion)

Rich: you are taking input to fill textbox?

Matt: right
... really valid reason to do this this way
... people should think about essential elements in the pattern

Rich: i would like to see a restricted set of widget types

Matt: I will change that in iteration next to limit list

Rich: let's see that list


<Zakim> ShaneM, you wanted to point out that menus in input fields are common in ideographic languages


<clown> https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/166


<ShaneM> ShaneM: Note that ideographic input methods often show menus to complete text input , even as part of a combo box. Not sure if this is a list of a menu

<Rich> https://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/2020

Cynthia: had long discussion with dev team
... from edge

<Rich> Cynthia: I reviewed this idea with one of our security experts. His opinion was that adding role=password doesn't add any additional threat. He did think that using divs and images to simulate a password was less secure than using an html password input, but that adding the accessibility piece to it didn't have any impact on the security risk.

Rich: coming back to Joanis proposal for password

<Rich> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/password-role/aria/aria.html#password

SIs list of properties identical to textbox?

Joanmarie: describedat is added
... will do new version of branch

<ShaneM> describedat is NOT added.

Rich: must get to right branch
... we will have to get the merge branch

<ShaneM> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/aria/aria.html#textbox

(discussion about branch refrehes)

Rich: forge about superclass
... (checking properties)

Shane: autocomplete isn't ..

Joseph: taxonomy doesn't allow you to kick out props

Rich: you have to subclass input but no multiline and autocomplete

Joanmarie: you have to start out .. role changes .. is jacky for AT .. I will do a brand new branch

Shane: multiline is possible but not with textarea
... in HTML
... the property for a pssword element
... password in HTML is no multiline


<ShaneM> sorry joanie :(

(discussion about what IS a use case for password fields)

Name from author and content

Joanie: will e faster for shane -> assigned to shane

Rich: next week ? after CSUN

<Rich> https://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/products/17


<Rich> https://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1756

Rich: what is this about shane?

Shane: build markup associations in spec .. json file creation that helps us

Joseph: associations are MUST statements?#Shane: or shoulds

Shane: conditional associations based on if

<Rich> https://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/issues/641

<Rich> action-1744?

<trackbot> action-1744 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Implement edits proposed in issue-641, raise to group if any subsantive changes come out -- due 2015-11-26 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1744

Rich: this is for James craig.. do you remember joane? Joanie: no

Joanie: next week

Rich: ok

<Rich> https://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/issues/648

Rich: we did this

<clown> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/aria/aria.html#implicit_semantics

<clown> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/aria/aria.html#host_general_conflict

<Rich> ACTION: Michael modify section 7.4 to include role values as native host language semantics in paragraph 2 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/03/10-aria-minutes.html#action03]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-2040 - Modify section 7.4 to include role values as native host language semantics in paragraph 2 [on Michael Cooper - due 2016-03-17].

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: matt update definition of aria-autocomplete [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/03/10-aria-minutes.html#action01]
[NEW] ACTION: Michael modify section 7.4 to include role values as native host language semantics in paragraph 2 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/03/10-aria-minutes.html#action03]
[NEW] ACTION: mking3 update definition of aria-autocomplete [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/03/10-aria-minutes.html#action02]

Summary of Resolutions

  1. Core AAM Core Name + Description DPUB-ARIA DPUB-AAM they will be published as heartbeat drafts
[End of minutes]

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Succeeded: s/Biran/Bryan/
Succeeded: s/Joseph: what#s a good reason for MUST/Joseph: a SHOULD means MUST unless there is a good reason not to.  What is that reason?/
Found Scribe: Stefan
Inferring ScribeNick: Stefan
Found Scribe: Stefan
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Present: Joanmarie_Diggs JaeunJemmaku Rich_Schwerdtfeger fesch Joseph_Scheuhammer jongund Tzviya ShaneM
Found Date: 10 Mar 2016
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2016/03/10-aria-minutes.html
People with action items: 7.4 matt michael mking3 modify section

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