See also: IRC log
<scribe> scribenick: rhiaro
Arnaud: two sets to approve, last week, and from a copule of weeks ago
<ben_thatmustbeme> yeah, i think they were fixed right after last meeting
<Arnaud> https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/2016-02-16
<Arnaud> Approval of Minutes of 2016-01-26
<Arnaud> https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/2016-01-26-minutes
Arnaud: Any objections?
+1
<azaroth> +1
<ben_thatmustbeme> +1
<cwebber2-2> +1
RESOLUTION: Approved Minutes of 2016-01-26
scribe: And minutes from Feb 9
<Arnaud> Approval of Minutes of 2016-02-09
<AnnB> +1
<Arnaud> https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/2016-02-09-minutes
<ben_thatmustbeme> +1
<dromasca> +1
<cwebber2-2> +1
RESOLUTION: Approved Minutes of 2016-02-09
scribe: Unfortunately when I was
trying to put the agenda together yesterday it seemed not much
had happened
... I carried over topics from last week, mostly about AS2
publication
... Trying to get there, no open issues, mostly a matter of
getting the draft in shape so it can be published and reviewed
by the group so that we can move on to CR
... jasnell has been super busy with another project
... every week I ask him what the status is and he tells me
that he's going to get it done this week, said the same thing
yesterday, I did point out he tells me that every week, but
hopefully he will eventually get to it
sandro: I'm surprised to hear you say that there are no open issues; what happened to the issues we agreed to open a couple of weeks ago like conformance clause
Arnaud: I meant no technical
issues
... There's still the issue of conformance and definition of
the features
... I didn't expect Evan to also be absent today, he took the
actions to take a crack at those things
... The agreement is that he would take a crack at addressing
those things and we would publish the new draft and the group
woudl review and discuss, and assuming this gets settled we'd
be able to close this
... Then the only thing left would be the test suite
sandro: I just realised that we
have a guest on the call who I was going to introduce
... Natalie, can you hear me?
Natalie: Hello
sandro: You all my recall Harry
Halpin was representin gthe dcent prorject which was an EU
research project on decentralised technologies, and there were
industrial partners implementing some of our technologies
... Natalie is a representative of one of those, so we asked if
she could join the call to give their feedback on AS2
... With James and Evan not here, there might not be much use
today
<ben_thatmustbeme> Still scribing
sandro: But you could say hi
<cwebber2-2> hello Natalie!
Natalie: I guess I should give a summary next week, or would you like to have an idea today of how we found it?
Arnaud: I'd liek ot hear it,
since we have time if you don't mind
... Maybe not getting into too much technical details that
absent people wouldn't want to miss, but more of a higher level
would be interesting
Natalie: It was fairly
straightforward to use, as just a format for the data. There
are a few little things which I'm not sure why they're there
and would have changed
... like having an @ on type, it's extra work in clojure and
I'm not sure what tha'ts for
... Whether or not it's recommended to use the types in AS2
core, or if it's okay to make up your own, and what's intended,
we weren't really sure
... Another thing that we were originally using the words from
the types themselves were being displayed to the user, but
actually we needed to translate everything
... Based on what the type was, rather than actually using the
words themselves
... In general through it was fairly striaghtforward. The
examples were good
... Someone has been working on having examples that people can
test against, test parsers with, that's great. We've got tests
already, but that's brilliant, and having more examples of what
it should look like
... I don't have much feedback other than little things
... Another thing would be activities having incrementing
ids
... For ordering. Sometimes timestamps are thes ame
<rhiaro> Isn't that an implementation detail?
Natalie: That's pretty much all
the things
... Is everyone here familiar/using/involved?
Arnaud: Sounds positive overall,
but one question is
... maybe you should mention generally speaking what this
project is about
... I'm not sure everybody is aware. What do you actually do
with AS2?
Natalie: at Thoughtworks we're
building three tools as part of the dcent project. One of those
tools, Mooncake, is a notifications tool
... Mooncake consumes AS2
... One of our other tools, Objective8, publishes
activities
... an example would be if someone creates a new objective or
asks a question
... these are possible actions in Objective8
... That gets published through an API which Mooncake
consumes
... Sort of like a twitter feed, creates a new notification for
any new objective or question
... The idea of the notificaiton tool is to give users feedback
on any activiyt or event having in their dcent ecosystem
... Anything that's publishing activity streams that's
connected to their instance of Mooncake
Arnaud: Thank you.
<Zakim> azaroth, you wanted to +1 rhiaro re alias
azaroth: I just wanted to ask a
quick question
... Mostly to +1 what Amy noted about @ in irc
... In the most recent version id and type are aliased to @id
and @type
... Whether the documentation could be clearer about that that
the intend is to use id and type and avoid the @s which would
solve the problem
Natalie: Ah thank you. Looking at that now
sandro: does a json-ld processor naturally favour those aliases?
<rhiaro> does the context take care of that?
sandro: in generation, not parsing
azaroth: I believe yes
... The playground does
... To be tested, but..
<azaroth> +1 to Sandro
sandro: so when we have a test suite it should be clear enough that the @ signs don't belong there because you'll get an error
Natalie: why are they there in the examplse?
<cwebber2-2> wait
<cwebber2-2> are @id and id an error in AS2?
sandro: they're in json-ld
<cwebber2-2> or is it just supported to have the alias
<cwebber2-2> sandro, ^^^
sandro: But we changed them to not need it in AS2
<azaroth> cwebber2-2: Good question
Arnaud: do you actually use json-ld, or you read this as json?
Natalie: json
sandro: but you do use extensions
right?
... You have your own vocabulary for some of the things going
on?
Natalie: What do you mean? I don't think we've added anything that's not in here
sandro: I had the impression from something I heard that when Objective8 is sending it's feed it's using a vocabulary that includes things relative to what Objective8 does, rather than just general AS2 things. Maybe I misunderstood
Natalie: No, just using AS2
Arnaud: This is interesting,
touches a point i wanted to make
... I wanted to point out that AS2 is meant to be extensible so
you could add your own elements to it, to your stream, so you
can carry extra information that is not part of the
standard
... Iw as going to ask if you use any extensions, so you just
answered that, but I don't know if you're aware that you
could
Natalie: surely the idea about
the standards that if this is the data I'm publishing I'm
assuming that any consumer will only accept the AS2 standard
keys
... So if I add my own that data will disappear it won't be
used
Arnaud: You're right, any time you use some extension you won't achieve the same level of interoperability that you have otherwise. But there is a sweet spot we're trying to find where we're not trying to cover the world, and at the same time tryign to provide a core set of functionality taht will address most of your use cases, but leave the door open for those who need to go beyond
Natalie: I think a lot of what we were doing was around the usage of AS2 and trying out... I guess if you've got an endpoint that is being consumed by many things you might want that extensibility, but we were only being consumed by Mooncake which had the data in this format
<Zakim> azaroth, you wanted to +1 cwebber's question
Natalie: Making it clear which is the data being consumed by AS2 consumers, and what is being consumed by other things
azaroth: Mooncake is a really awesome name btw
<KevinMarks> it may not disappear - depends on the client. One workaround is to put mf2 in your content
<KevinMarks> hm
azaroth: cwebber2 had a good
question
... that @id would be an error?
<KevinMarks> https://www.w3.org/wiki/Activity_Streams links to http://jasnell.github.io/w3c-socialwg-activitystreams/activitystreams2.html whcih 404s
sandro: if both are acceptable,
every consumer has to understand both, so natalie's problem is
not solved
... Her code has to check for both
... So I was assuming we'd make it an error bu tI don't
know
... Something someone should find in the spec, and make a test
case
Arnaud: is natalie on irc?
... Not that you have to be
... but peopel make comments and side questions there
... so if you hear people saying somebody else said this or
that, they read it on irc
... I realise if you're not on there it might sound a bit
weird
... Any other questions for natalie?
azaroth: Is someoen going to take an action to check that? Especially as the examples all say @ and that's an error, that's a CR blocker
Arnaud: was that volunteering?
azaroth: .......sure, I'll do it.
<sandro> no good deed goes unpunished :-)
Arnaud: Thank you
<azaroth> :)
Arnaud: Any other comments or questions?
sandro: I know a little bit of this, but Natalie do you have peopel using these tools now, or expectations about whether they'll be publich or who is using them going forward
Natalie: we don't have users, we
do have a live demo
... I can send the links to sandro
... People go and play with that, it's a sandbox
... at the moment we've got people looking at the other
tools
... Mooncake is more useful once you've a few things in the
dcent ecosystem, at the moment we're only trying to get people
to use one thing
... Less useful if it's just oen thing
... That being said, lots of people are looking at these tools
so we'll see if anyone is interested
Arnaud: If you can send a link I'm sure peopel would like to have a look
sandro: How long will you be working on this? I understand dcent is winding down in a little bit
Natalie: At the moment (things
change) the dcent project ends at the end of May, including
THoughtworks involvement
... Whether that will continue because there's more funding or
we want to keep it going I'm not sure, but at the moment our
end date is may
... These tools are open source though
<ben_thatmustbeme> https://github.com/ThoughtWorksInc/mooncake
Arnaud: We're tryign to get to CR
for AS2, which is when we as a working gropu declare that we
have a spec that addresses our use cases and doesn't have any
known technical issues, and that's when we're calling the world
on implementation feedback
... So hopefully we'll be there before the end of may and then
you can provide some formal feedback
... THat would be very helpful
... Let's move on
... I don't know what else we can talk about given the lack of
editors
... WAiting for Evan to get back to us on different
pieces
... Invited everyone else to add to the agenda, haven't seen
any edits. Anything anyone wants to bring up?
KevinMarks: Issues were already
on the agenda, and I posted a couple of issues based on
external comments, mostly reposting exteral comments
... on github, just to note I did that, to bring in some
outside implementors who had questions and issues
Arnaud: do you think the spec needs to be modified?
KevinMarks: They're reactions to attempting to implement, so worth reading, but need clarifying to make actions to amend the spec
Arnaud: Thank you
sandro: Other possible agenda
items, I wonder... we're four or five weeks from the f2f
... Hopefully everybody has answered on the wiki whether
they're coming
... I assume the chairs will start to think about the agend,a
but if people have goals or milestones they'd like to push for
and have group support to push for, having some progress on
each of our documents around the face to face, before or after,
is probably important
... So having the editors think about what's necessary to move
their document forward
Arnaud: +1
... there are quite a few document sin draft stages, I don't
seem to see much activity, so I don't know what's going
on
... You can expect as the f2f gets closer, you will be asked
what's going on
<ben_thatmustbeme> for my doc its that i'm super busy
Arnaud: Always a question of
whether people are busy which I understand, or if there's
something that's blocking progress that we should tackle as a
WG
... Unless there's anything else we can close early
sandro: I forwarded Natalie's links, so if you want to go play with Mooncake or Objective8 during your remaining 35 minutes you can do that
Arnaud: Let's close on this, thank you all for joining
<AnnB> rhiaro ++
<AnnB> Arnaud++
<azaroth> rhiaro++
<Loqi> Arnaud has 30 karma
<Loqi> rhiaro has 198 karma
<azaroth> Natalie++
<Loqi> Natalie has 1 karma
<Arnaud> trackbot, end meeting
<azaroth> Bye all :)
<AnnB> quit
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.144 of Date: 2015/11/17 08:39:34 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/=/+/ Found ScribeNick: rhiaro Inferring Scribes: rhiaro Default Present: aaronpk, Rob_Sanderson, Arnaud, ben_thatmustbeme, sandro, rhiaro, AnnB, KevinMarks, dmitriz, cwebber2, dromasca, tsyesika Present: aaronpk Rob_Sanderson Arnaud ben_thatmustbeme sandro rhiaro AnnB KevinMarks dmitriz cwebber2 dromasca tsyesika Agenda: https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/2016-02-16 Found Date: 16 Feb 2016 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2016/02/16-social-minutes.html People with action items:[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]