See also: IRC log
<scribe> scribenick: mgylling
tzviya: yesterday, you decided to push out the pseudo-last-call
rich: we’re gonna do a heartbeat instead
tzviya: by when?
rich: by CSUN
tzviya: will that included
information re replacing describedAt?
... the core spec has a trickle-down effect for both DPUB and
EPUB
rich: I logged an issue after the meeting for extended descriptions, going to look at link-type as well
tzviya: I think Joanie was working on that
janina: issue 2006
<janina> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/2006
<janina> Above opened by Joanie
rich: I also put one in for extended descs
<janina> Rich's issue is:
<janina> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/issues/1009
tzviya: so the plan is that both of these will be in heartbeat by CSUN?
rich: provided we can get the
group to sign off, yes
... we have an errormessage attribute, and I think we might
follow a similar strategy there
... we can either do two things: either an errormessage that
takes an ID, and we will say that it has to be visible
... we can actually annotate the target with a special
attribute. Question I have, are extended descs always
invisible?
Tzviya: no
janina: use MQ for that
rich: ok so thats a different
strategy then
... we have to determine if its hidden, what do we do with
it
tzviya: we talked about a toggle option
rich: if its invisible, do we not map it?
<tzviya> extended description analysis: http://w3c.github.io/dpub-accessibility/extended-description-analysis.html
rich: if we have a relationship
that goes to an extended desc that is invisible, we do nothing
with it
... if the MQ is in place and its visible, then we show the
relationship
tzviya: we are trying to accomplish that its accessible to AT, but not necessarily displayed
janina: only for non-visual AT
users?
... sighted users are going to want to see the text
tzviya: thats why we talked about the toggle
s/visible to AT/exposed to AT
rich: the importance of the
extended desc is that its not just text, contains structure, if
you make it hidden its just a string
... for it to be available it needs to visible in some way, and
that would be the MQ
... if there is an extended desc, and we want to be able to say
there’s an ED, and you can’t get at it unless you turn on the
MQ.
janina: this would support having
markup available
... because we’re hiding with the MQ
<tzviya> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-aria/2016Jan/0031.html
tzviya: we’ve talked about a theoretical MQ, what does it look like?
rich: the MQ would be something on the order of “show extended descriptions”
tzviya: most MQs I’ve seen has to do with screen size or device...
ivan: for me MQ is a CSS feature, we cannot define something for CSS
rich: this has to be done in the CSS WG
tzviya: so we dont really have a solution yet, if we dont have a functional MQ
janina: we need someone to get busy in CSSWG to do this
ivan: the TODO list of the CSSWG is enormous
https://www.w3.org/TR/mediaqueries-4/#custom-mq
ivan: the point is that at the
moment, we are trying to push reading systems to rely on
provided CSS, IDPF wants to avoid extensions
... its a very long process
rich: we’ve got a binary MQ for inverted colors
matt: is it valid to do user preference in MQ though?
janina: sure
<richardschwerdtfeger> https://drafts.csswg.org/mediaqueries-4/#inverted
<ivan> @media monochrome { ...}
rich: jcraig offered to do the ED media query for us
janina: we want to do this easy
now and get some implementation experience
... I can check with jcraig if he still is willing to do
this
tzviya: I like to think about this as for ARIA in general, not for DPUB only, it will go into the ARIA spec
ivan: I think we should involve Florian as well, he’s an MQ editor and on DPUB IG
rich: one more thing: the OS does
not have this functionality, so the setting would have to be in
the browser
... the ability to tell a web app that I want ED exposed has to
be set somewhere
... there’s got to be a mechanism to make the change
... it would take a lot longer to convince OS owners
... reading systems would then need to have the ability to go
in and turn the setting off or on in browsers
janina: in IndieUI, we were
thinking of a set of personalization settings like these
... but that WG hasnt kicked off yet
... the personalization stuff ended up in the ARIA charter
tzviya: DPUB will get involved
once ARIA personalization starts
... ARIA 1.1 will remove describedAt, in the near term, what
are authors supposed to do?
... we dont have a mechanism for distinguishing arbitrary
details elements from an extended descripton details
janina: we were going to disambiguate that right?
rich: yes I logged an issue
janina: a bunch of stuff is
stacked up against it
... change the definition of alt, etc
rich: let Joanie know if you have
more values to add into her work on linktype
... the CSS work should come from APA, not ARIA
ivan: coming back to where we are: details is i the WD of HTML 5.1. This is as far as I understood to get it out as REC at the end of this year?
janina: yes
ivan: caniuse claims that details is implemented only by webkit
<tzviya> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-aria/2016Jan/0031.html
<tzviya> wroing link
<tzviya> http://caniuse.com/#search=details
janina: think we got message from MS that it is one the agenda for Edge
rich: and firefox is working on it
tzviya: even if FF is working on it now, we dont have a timeline do we?
s/<aria/<a aria
markus: details may work even if its not implemented natively; we dont use any of its intrinsic behaviors do we?
ivan: we need to talk to Florian
about timeline for MQ4
... I would not rely on having MQ in place for this
<richardschwerdtfeger> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=591737
markus: Ivan right, but at least some of the use cases are covered even without it
<ivan> markus, I agree
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.144 of Date: 2015/11/17 08:39:34 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/1009/2006/ Succeeded: s/on/one/ FAILED: s/visible to AT/exposed to AT/ Succeeded: s/mechanisms/mechanism/ Succeeded: s/value/values/ FAILED: s/<aria/<a aria/ Found ScribeNick: mgylling Inferring Scribes: mgylling Present: janina Tzviya Markus Rich_Schwerdtfeger MichaelC WARNING: No meeting title found! You should specify the meeting title like this: <dbooth> Meeting: Weekly Baking Club Meeting Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-dpub-aria/2016Jan/0012.html Got date from IRC log name: 21 Jan 2016 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2016/01/21-dpub-aria-minutes.html People with action items: WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines. You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option.[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]