W3C

- DRAFT -

Protocols and Formats Working Group Teleconference

08 Oct 2015

See also: IRC log

Attendees

Present
Joanmarie_Diggs, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, fesch, LJWatson, Joseph_Scheuhammer, Michiel_Bijl
Regrets
Chair
Rich
Scribe
fesch

Contents


aria

<trackbot> Date: 08 October 2015

<richardschwerdtfeger> meeting: W3C WAI-PF ARIA Caucus

640 582 571

password aria

<richardschwerdtfeger> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2015Oct/0024.html

<scribe> scribe: fesch

<clown> action-1361

<trackbot> action-1361 -- Matthew King to Suggest new text for the application role -- due 2015-06-11 -- OPEN

<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1361

rs: worried about mappings and coordinating with HTML and SVG...

<clown> http://w3c.github.io/aria/core-aam/core-aam.html#role-map-group

rs: a div maps to a group

<clown> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/html-aam/html-aam.html#el-div

mck: this has consequence for AT as they reveal group, there are some references to group in the descriptions and may need editing

rs: in different APIs may map to different things

mk: what is happening in voiceover and JAWS, elements with role group are being surfaced by the AT
... I wouldn't want every div to be surfaced

lw: list shows up but as group not the list items

<clown> http://w3c.github.io/aria/core-aam/core-aam.html#role-map-listitem

<clown> core-aam for axapi says "group" for role listitem

mk: should there be something in the spec if div maps to group, should there be something that says groups should not be exposed?

<clown> role list is mapped to AXList

mk: in the spec it says label by content

rs: that is going to change

mk: to label by author?

rs: yes

js: label not required

rs: but if you want a label, then you have to add it

jn: then it is completely broken, if they only report the first child item...

rs: reiterates discussion from a few meetings ago

mk: now it is confusing
... it seems crazy to override the content...

rs: content isn't used

lw: so does the author need to add a label through another means?

rs: no you can go directly to the content

<clown> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/aria/aria.html#listitem

mk: question on whether group will change and whether we need to change application role text

<clown> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/html-aam/html-aam.html#el-div

mk: we were getting a role group, but there would need to be a change to tell AT not to expose groups without a label

rs: what happens if you have a panel?

jd: orca will care about a panel without a name, but won't announce the panel

<clown> fwiw, on ATK, group is mapped to panel, and div is mapped to section.

jd: as long as it doesn't have a name, orca can filter that out...

mk: section is a region only if it has a label, so same for div
... so if an author needs a div announced they have to have a label

rs: yes

action-1708

<trackbot> action-1708 -- Richard Schwerdtfeger to Create proposed text for a new figure role to joanie to put in a brancth for review -- due 2015-09-03 -- OPEN

<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1708

<joanie> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/figure/aria/aria.html#figure

action-1709

<trackbot> action-1709 -- Richard Schwerdtfeger to Get with steve faulkner to discuss the html figure element mapping to role figure -- due 2015-09-03 -- OPEN

<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1709

<clown> action-1708?

<trackbot> action-1708 -- Richard Schwerdtfeger to Create proposed text for a new figure role to joanie to put in a brancth for review -- due 2015-09-03 -- OPEN

<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1708

<richardschwerdtfeger> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2015Oct/0023.html

<clown> \o/

<richardschwerdtfeger> :-P

jd: did separate commits for your and Joseph's commits...
... then did editorial stuff ...

<clown> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/figure/aria/aria.html#figure

jd: combo of Rich, Joseph and Joanie langugage

rs: where it gets confusing is how it is related landmark.

<clown> "A section of content that is easily perceivable regardless of its position in the layout, that supports a list of figures"

<clown> ?

rs: so it is like a landmark in that it should be easily found in a list

jd: is that the only difference?

rs: yes

js: I was trying to say how it was like a landmark, without using the word landmark.

rs: A section of content that is easily perceivable regardless of its position in the layout. doesn't say it is a figure. very generic.

mk> that is very generic...

a percievable section of content that usually contains a graphical document...

mk: term graphical document is unual

rs: graphical document will come out of the SVG semantics

mk: I don't think we should use it unless it

http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/aria/graphics.html

<clown> "A perceivable section of content that typicallly contains graphics, images, code snippets or example text."

http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/aria/graphics.html#role_definitions

<joanie> I just removed the references to landmark and fixed the table. I am still waiting for consensus on the short definition. But those watching live can refresh.

look at graphics-doc

<mck> I propose A perceivable section of content that typically contains a graphical document, image, code snippets, or example text.

js: I think you want to make document point to document role

<clown> "A figure can contain a <a>graphical document</a> …"

lw: agree to link whole phrase to WAI-ARIA Graphics Module

<clown> where the <a> has href="'http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/aria/graphics.html#graphics-doc"

rs: like proposal Joseph had as we can't bind them together... can't guarantee that they will be done at the same time
... better to make a glossary term, will create action ...

<mck> A perceivable section of content that typically contains a graphical document, image, code snippets, or example text.

<clown> joanie, right, and the href will be to the glossary entry once that is written.

mk: : I like what I just pasted in...
... the first sentence makes them distinct from different roles

real time editing...

real time editing

lw: are we scoping down to the img role?

js: because we want to contrast with the img role.

<richardschwerdtfeger> A perceivable section of content that typically contains a graphical document, images, code snippets, or example text.

<richardschwerdtfeger> A figure has parts that may be navigable in some instances.

<richardschwerdtfeger> Authors should provide a reference to the figure from the main text, but the figure need not be displayed at the same location as the referencing element.

<richardschwerdtfeger> A figure may have an associated description representing a caption and may have an associated label.

<richardschwerdtfeger> Assistive technologies should enable users to quickly navigate to figures. Mainstream user agents may enable users to quickly navigate to figures.

<clown> A figure MAY have an associated description representing a caption and MAY have an associated label.

<clown> Does this imply that aria-describedby should be used for the caption? This, at least, is how I construe the above statement.

<clown> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2015Oct/0025.html

<richardschwerdtfeger> Authors should use aria-describedby on an alertdialog to reference the alert message element in the dialog. If they do not, an assistive technology can resort to its internal recovery mechanism to determine the contents of the alert message.

<richardschwerdtfeger> Authors MAY use aria-describedby on a figure to reference a caption.

mk: are we adding a caption role or not?

js: I think no caption

fe: more real time wordsmithing...

rs: we have spent too much time wordsmithing...

<clown> ACTION: fesch to create a definition of "graphical document" for the glossarry. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/10/08-aria-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-1733 - Create a definition of "graphical document" for the glossarry. [on Fred Esch - due 2015-10-15].

<clown> action-1733?

<trackbot> action-1733 -- Fred Esch to Create a definition of "graphical document" for the glossarry. -- due 2015-10-15 -- OPEN

<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1733

<scribe> ACTION: Rich to get back to Jason White on comment [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/10/08-aria-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-1734 - Get back to jason white on comment [on Richard Schwerdtfeger - due 2015-10-15].

<clown> action-1708

<trackbot> action-1708 -- Richard Schwerdtfeger to Create proposed text for a new figure role to joanie to put in a brancth for review -- due 2015-09-03 -- OPEN

<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1708

RESOLUTION: action -1708 done

action-1709

<trackbot> action-1709 -- Richard Schwerdtfeger to Get with steve faulkner to discuss the html figure element mapping to role figure -- due 2015-09-03 -- OPEN

<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1709

RESOLUTION: action 1709 complete

action-1679

<trackbot> action-1679 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Start exploring content for a potential whitepaper on the difference between readonly and disabled -- due 2015-07-16 -- OPEN

<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1679

<mck> have to sign off

rs: do we need to do this now?

<joanie> +1

<joanie> it's an attribute

rs: do we need a primary buttion?
... do we need a role or attribute?

several: attribute!

primary button

jn: we have the concept, especially on wizards where the next button is the default...

rs: this like additional semantics, COGA people are doing additional semantics, - this falls into this category
... dpub has special roles for links.... I would like to have that be a destination...
... like anchors

lw: if the primary button does something... why do you need to navigate directly to the primary button?
... this is something that will only take one or two buttons to do

rs: it isn't necessarily about screen readers.... for COGA it is about style too...
... on the mac does it look the same way?

jn: if we are showing this, then the UI designer is doing this

lw: we have this covered

jn: we have it covered by using the wrong element for things...

<joanie> I agree with James too.

rrs,agent make minutes

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: fesch to create a definition of "graphical document" for the glossarry. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/10/08-aria-minutes.html#action01]
[NEW] ACTION: Rich to get back to Jason White on comment [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/10/08-aria-minutes.html#action02]
 
[End of minutes]

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$Date: 2015/10/08 18:02:31 $

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Found Scribe: fesch
Inferring ScribeNick: fesch
Present: Joanmarie_Diggs Rich_Schwerdtfeger fesch LJWatson Joseph_Scheuhammer Michiel_Bijl
Found Date: 08 Oct 2015
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2015/10/08-aria-minutes.html
People with action items: fesch rich

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