See also: IRC log
<trackbot> Date: 06 October 2015
<clown> agenda: this
<scribe> scribe: joanie
JS: My action was to remove the
MSAA plus UIA express column.
... I removed the columns from the tables.
... I removed other little notes that mentioned UIA express, so
it's now gone from the mapping spec.
... Cynthia was supposed to write a statement about this.
... Because she knows the status, I would prefer for her to
write it rather than my doing so.
... I think the columns are still in the HTML-AAM. Do they need
to be removed too?
RS: What we're doing is for ARIA
1.1.
... We're in different shape.
... If they're going to do a mapping guide, I'm thinking it
will be for HTML 5.1.
<clown> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/html-aam/html-aam.html
RS: If there are any problems, they won't be going back to IE because it won't be fixed there.
JS: I can confirm it is for HTML 5.1.
RS: Do they have a UIA column?
JS: Yes.
RS: I'll ping via Skype Steve Faulkner to remove the UIA express column.
JS: I noticed that in many cases, the HTML mapping spec now points to the core mapping spec.
<clown> action-1717?
<trackbot> action-1717 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Remove the MSAA plus UIA express column -- due 2015-09-08 -- OPEN
<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1717
JS: And I guess you'll (Rich) need to remove this column from the SVG mapping guide.
RS: Yes. I also need a UIA column.
<clown> action-1309?
<trackbot> action-1309 -- Cynthia Shelly to Determine the best place to map aria-colindex and aria-rowindex for UIA. -- due 2015-08-01 -- OPEN
<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1309
JS: I asked Cynthia to update her
action items.
... There are no notes for this action item.
<clown> action-1531
<trackbot> action-1531 -- David Bolter to Bolter to investigate ia2 mapping of role="text" -- due 2014-11-18 -- OPEN
<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1531
<clown> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#role-map-text
JS: There was some emails back
and forth last week.
... It looks like James Teh wants TEXT_FRAME for IA2.
... The mapping is at the link above.
... I think we're done.
... Can we close this action?
... The full mail thread occurred in wai-xtech.
<clown> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/wai-xtech/2015Sep/0014.html
JS: The first email in the thread
is at the URL above.
... (Reads portions of the thread)
<clown> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/wai-xtech/2015Sep/0020.html
RS: Why would you use the role="text" on the example in that email?
<clown> http://w3c.github.io/aria/aria/aria.html#text
JD: Ask James Craig. I believe it's one of his examples added to the spec.
JS: (Reads from the spec link above)
RS: I know when we had the
meeting, it was about putting it on an image.
... This example seems like it was something we didn't discuss
at the meeting.
... What if you put an image in the middle of that
example?
... And then there's SVG. Do you put it on the individual
letters, or the collection of drawings?
... I think you'd want to put it on the individual
characters.
JD: Why?
<clown> <svg role="text" aria-label="Hi there!">… svg element describing strokes … </svg>
<clown> <svg role="text" aria-label="Hi there!">… svg elements describing strokes … </svg>
(Group discusses examples)
RS: Looking at the heart example, the heart becomes a single piece of text.
JS: And the heart becomes a
single piece of text.
... But the caret navigation would be completely bogus.
RS: So he's saying whatever is in
there has to be treated as a single entity.
... So given multiple entities, I'd treat it as a single object
rather than individual characters.
(Discussion on how this might or might not be searchable)
JS: About searching CSS content, the reason you cannot search it in the browser is because it's not in the DOM.
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1096071
JS: If you have a text string,
like "hello," it's made of strokes too. But that's not really
important.
... That text string winds up in the accessibility APIs as
"hello"
... And character navigation works.
(More discussion of text, groups, strokes, and SVG)
RS: The big thing we're trying to
do is charts and things like that.
... Do you see why I think the text frame mapping is kind of
confusing?
... You almost have to -- unless there's actual text -- treat
it like a single image/object.
... Joanie, when you run across an image with alt text, what
happens?
JD: The alt text is displayed in braille; it's not caret navigable.
<clown> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/wai-xtech/2015Sep/0020.html
JS: To go back to what James
said, if there is navigable text then the text interface should
be supported.
... James asked if ATs should expect accessible text or
not?
... But he indicated NVDA should be able to handle either
case.
JD: Orca can also handle it
either way.
... What is lacking is user agent guidance regarding when to
implement the accessible text interface or not.
<clown> not for <img alt>
<clown> not for role='text' with images or image-like glyphs.
<clown> but for role="text' when there is nothing but text.
<clown> what about svg text defined by strokes?
(Discussion between JD and JS regarding where in the spec(s) determining caret navigability belongs)
JS: I'm convinced it needs to be in both specs.
JD: Ok.
... The user agent's implementation is what determines if it's
caret navigable or not; not the author.
JS: But the author needs to know if it is or not.
JD: That's fair.
RS: And we need to be very prescriptive, or authors will be lost.
JS: But how to we clarify this?
RS: We need language in both the spec and the authoring guide.
<clown> "I love turtles"
<clown> "An element whose entire subtree should be exposed to accessibility APIs as plain text."
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