18:50:19 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #aapi
18:50:19 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/10/06-aapi-irc
18:50:21 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
18:50:21 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #aapi
18:50:23 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be WAI_PF
18:50:23 <Zakim> I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot
18:50:24 <trackbot> Meeting: Protocols and Formats Working Group Teleconference
18:50:24 <trackbot> Date: 06 October 2015
18:50:52 <clown> chair: Joseph_Scheuhammer
18:50:59 <clown> agenda: this
18:51:07 <clown> agenda+ ACTION-1717: (Joseph) Remove the MSAA plus UIA express column.
18:51:13 <clown> agenda+ ACTION-1706: (Cynthia) Compose a statement regarding the "deprecation" of UIA express mappings in the core-aam, referencing the aria 1.0 mapping spec.
18:51:18 <clown> agenda+ ACTION-1309: (Cynthia) UIA mappings for aria-colindex and aria-rowindex.
18:51:24 <clown> agenda+ ACTION-1531: (Joseph, Alex, David) IA2 mapping of role="text".
18:51:33 <clown> agenda+ ACTION-1528: (Alex, David) IA2 mapping for aria-current.
18:51:39 <clown> agenda+ ACTION-1585: (Cynthia) Add to the section on differences among aapis highlighting the features of UIA.
18:51:44 <clown> agenda+ ACTION-1585: (Cynthia) Add to the section on differences among aapis highlighting the features of UIA.
18:51:50 <clown> agenda+ ACTION-1668: (Rich, Alex) Add a IA2_ROLE_LANDMARK to IA2. This will tell ATs to look at the xml-roles value for landmarks.
18:51:55 <clown> agenda+ ACTION-1686: (Joseph) Drive mapping of aria-errormessage to AAPIs.
18:52:03 <clown> agenda+ ACTION-1692/1693: (Joanie, Alex) Propose ATK/AT-SPI mapping for aria-errormessage.
18:52:08 <clown> agenda+ Action/issue triage (https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/products/23)
18:52:14 <clown> agenda+ be done.
18:56:55 <clown> present+ Joseph_Scheuhammer
19:02:37 <bgaraventa1979> bgaraventa1979 has joined #aapi
19:02:58 <bgaraventa1979> present+ Bryan_Garaventa
19:03:35 <richardschwerdtfeger> richardschwerdtfeger has joined #aapi
19:04:39 <richardschwerdtfeger> present+ Rich_Schwerdtfeger
19:05:19 <joanie> present+ Joanmarie_Diggs
19:05:22 <joanie> scribe: joanie
19:06:18 <joanie> Zakim, take up item 1
19:06:18 <Zakim> agendum 1. "ACTION-1717: (Joseph) Remove the MSAA plus UIA express column." taken up [from clown]
19:09:40 <joanie> JS: My action was to remove the MSAA plus UIA express column.
19:09:50 <joanie> JS: I removed the columns from the tables.
19:10:07 <joanie> JS: I removed other little notes that mentioned UIA express, so it's now gone from the mapping spec.
19:10:22 <joanie> JS: Cynthia was supposed to write a statement about this.
19:10:39 <joanie> JS: Because she knows the status, I would prefer for her to write it rather than my doing so.
19:10:58 <joanie> JS: I think the columns are still in the HTML-AAM. Do they need to be removed too?
19:11:12 <joanie> RS: What we're doing is for ARIA 1.1.
19:11:34 <joanie> RS: We're in different shape.
19:11:48 <joanie> RS: If they're going to do a mapping guide, I'm thinking it will be for HTML 5.1.
19:11:57 <clown> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/html-aam/html-aam.html
19:12:04 <joanie> RS: If there are any problems, they won't be going back to IE because it won't be fixed there.
19:12:13 <joanie> JS: I can confirm it is for HTML 5.1.
19:12:20 <joanie> RS: Do they have a UIA column?
19:12:22 <joanie> JS: Yes.
19:12:38 <joanie> RS: I'll write a note to Steve Faulkner to remove the UIA express column.
19:13:01 <joanie> JS: I noticed that in many cases, the HTML mapping spec now points to the core mapping spec.
19:13:48 <joanie> s/write a note to/ping via Skype/
19:15:13 <clown> action-1717?
19:15:13 <trackbot> action-1717 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Remove the MSAA plus UIA express column -- due 2015-09-08 -- OPEN
19:15:13 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1717
19:16:24 <joanie> JS: And I guess you'll (Rich) need to remove this column from the SVG mapping guide.
19:16:33 <joanie> RS: Yes. I also need a UIA column.
19:16:55 <joanie> Zakim, take up item 3
19:16:55 <Zakim> agendum 3. "ACTION-1309: (Cynthia) UIA mappings for aria-colindex and aria-rowindex." taken up [from clown]
19:16:59 <clown> action-1309?
19:16:59 <trackbot> action-1309 -- Cynthia Shelly to Determine the best place to map aria-colindex and aria-rowindex for UIA. -- due 2015-08-01 -- OPEN
19:16:59 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1309
19:17:09 <joanie> JS: I asked Cynthia to update her action items.
19:17:15 <joanie> JS: There are no notes for this action item.
19:17:22 <joanie> Zakim, take up item 4
19:17:22 <Zakim> agendum 4. "ACTION-1531: (Joseph, Alex, David) IA2 mapping of role="text"." taken up [from clown]
19:17:31 <clown> action-1531
19:17:31 <trackbot> action-1531 -- David Bolter to Bolter to investigate ia2 mapping of role="text" -- due 2014-11-18 -- OPEN
19:17:31 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1531
19:20:55 <clown> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#role-map-text
19:21:02 <joanie> JS: There was some emails back and forth last week.
19:21:22 <joanie> JS: It looks like James Teh wants TEXT_FRAME for IA2.
19:21:30 <joanie> JS: The mapping is at the link above.
19:21:34 <joanie> JS: I think we're done.
19:23:56 <joanie> JS: Can we close this action?
19:24:44 <joanie> JS: The full mail thread occurred in wai-xtech.
19:24:57 <clown> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/wai-xtech/2015Sep/0014.html
19:25:09 <joanie> JS: The first email in the thread is at the URL above.
19:25:50 <joanie> JS: (Reads portions of the thread)
19:26:53 <clown> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/wai-xtech/2015Sep/0020.html
19:28:03 <joanie> RS: Why would you use the role="text" on the example in that email?
19:28:19 <clown> http://w3c.github.io/aria/aria/aria.html#text
19:28:20 <joanie> JD: Ask James Craig. I believe it's one of his examples added to the spec.
19:28:34 <joanie> JS: (Reads from the spec link above)
19:28:53 <joanie> RS: I know when we had the meeting, it was about putting it on an image.
19:29:20 <joanie> RS: This example seems like it was something we didn't discuss at the meeting.
19:30:06 <joanie> RS: What if you put an image in the middle of that example?
19:30:30 <joanie> RS: And then there's SVG. Do you put it on the individual letters, or the collection of drawings?
19:31:07 <joanie> RS: I think you'd want to put it on the individual characters.
19:31:52 <joanie> JD: Why?
19:32:51 <clown> <svg role="text" aria-label="Hi there!">… svg element describing strokes … </svg>
19:38:15 <clown> <svg role="text" aria-label="Hi there!">… svg elements describing strokes … </svg>
19:40:34 <joanie> (Group discusses examples)
19:41:24 <joanie> RS: Looking at the heart example, the heart becomes a single piece of text.
19:41:36 <joanie> JS: And the heart becomes a single piece of text.
19:41:44 <joanie> JS: But the caret navigation would be completely bogus.
19:41:59 <joanie> RS: So he's saying whatever is in there has to be treated as a single entity.
19:42:21 <joanie> RS: So given multiple entities, I'd treat it as a single object rather than individual characters.
19:44:34 <joanie> (Discussion on how this might or might not be searchable)
19:45:53 <joanie> JS: About searching CSS content, the reason you cannot search it in the browser is because it's not in the DOM.
19:47:39 <joanie> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1096071
19:48:54 <joanie> JS: If you have a text string, like "hello," it's made of strokes too. But that's not really important.
19:49:04 <joanie> JS: That text string winds up in the accessibility APIs as
19:49:24 <joanie> s/as/as "hello"/
19:49:40 <joanie> JS: And character navigation works.
19:50:57 <joanie> (More discussion of text, groups, strokes, and SVG)
19:51:49 <joanie> RS: The big thing we're trying to do is charts and things like that.
19:52:15 <joanie> RS: Do you see why I think the text frame mapping is kind of confusing?
19:52:38 <joanie> RS: You almost have to -- unless there's actual text -- treat it like a single image/object.
19:53:26 <joanie> RS: Joanie, when you run across an image with alt text, what happens?
19:53:41 <joanie> JD: The alt text is displayed in braille; it's not caret navigable.
19:54:05 <clown> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/wai-xtech/2015Sep/0020.html
19:54:09 <joanie> JS: To go back to what James said, if there is navigable text then the text interface should be supported.
19:54:29 <joanie> JS: James asked if ATs should expect accessible text or not?
19:54:42 <joanie> JS: But he indicated NVDA should be able to handle either case.
19:56:09 <joanie> JD: Orca can also handle it either way.
19:56:51 <joanie> JD: What is lacking is user agent guidance regarding when to implement the accessible text interface or not.
19:57:17 <clown> not for <img alt>
19:57:38 <clown> not for role='text' with images or image-like glyphs.
19:57:52 <clown> but for role="text' when there is nothing but text.
19:58:03 <clown> what about svg text defined by strokes?
20:02:40 <joanie> (Discussion between JD and JS regarding where in the spec(s) determining caret navigability belongs)
20:02:50 <joanie> JS: I'm convinced it needs to be in both specs.
20:03:01 <joanie> JD: Ok.
20:03:20 <joanie> JD: The user agent's implementation is what determines if it's caret navigable or not; not the author.
20:03:32 <joanie> JS: But the author needs to know if it is or not.
20:03:35 <joanie> JD: That's fair.
20:03:46 <joanie> RS: And we need to be very prescriptive, or authors will be lost.
20:04:53 <joanie> JS: But how to we clarify this?
20:05:05 <joanie> RS: We need language in both the spec and the authoring guide.
20:14:36 <clown> "I love turtles"
20:17:19 <clown> "An element whose entire subtree should be exposed to accessibility APIs as plain text."
20:25:53 <joanie> Zakim, part
20:25:53 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees have been Joseph_Scheuhammer, Bryan_Garaventa, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, Joanmarie_Diggs
20:25:53 <Zakim> Zakim has left #aapi
20:26:05 <joanie> scribeOptions: -final
20:26:09 <joanie> RRSAgent, stop