24 Sep 2015


See also: IRC log


janina, tzviya, Janina, ivan, Markus, Rich_Schwerdtfeger


<tzviya> this is DPUB-ARIA

scribenick mgylling

open issues

<tzviya> https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/87

tzviya: proposal to change prefix from dpub to doc

… the general thought is that using dpub limits audience, broaden exposure by more general prefix

rich: we might get pushback from other people

… is it floated to html5 wg, microsoft?

tzviya: not yet

tzivya: other than a possible microsoft objection, are we comfortable with the new prefix?

janina: why generalize it?

… seems to me there is value to associated with digital publishing as a brand

ivan: the other issue however is that it is not necessarily good to keep digital publishing in its own silo

… it has been that way, and it does not necessarily help

… not something no the side, but that is relevant for core web usage

… I would be pleased if somebody produced vanilla html5 doc with these terms

… we have to run the idea through others and see if we get pushbacks… its not the end of the world

janina: spending a lot of time on this is probably not worthwhile

rich: who from DPIG is going to raise this with microsoft
... suggest tzviya send an email to cynthia

tzviya: is ms the only organization we need comments from?

rich: you can post to public-pf

tzviya: and lets bring this up again on our next meeting

additional terms

tzviya: we dont need to go through all additional terms now, we have some questions about them

… is the role term in ARIA?

rich: yes it is, we have definitions and things like that

<richardschwerdtfeger> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/aria/aria.html#term

<richardschwerdtfeger> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/aria/aria.html#definition

tzviya: this is going to affect how we do glossaries etc
... next questions: we put in a new role “errata” or “erratum”, if we put this on an li, how does that affect list based semantics

rich: why do you need erratum?

tzviya: think we only want the plural
... somebody in PF recommended using both container and individual item
... there are a few things that can be done individually or in group, like footnotes, not always standalone section

rich: can an erratum land elsewhere as well?

tzviya: probably no

… the first issue we wanted to clarify is whether listness is overriden, the answer to that is yes

rich: but then you will have an issue with each of the list items in an errata

tzviya: second issue is bloat caused by plural and singular, some of these are because they are sometimes in standalone sections, sometimes not.
... moving on to the mappings, terms that are implicit

<richardschwerdtfeger> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/aria/aria.html#listitem

rich: listitem says its on the context of a group or a list, the question is for erratum, is it a group, a landmark or what?

tzviya: the reason we had both, is that on some of the early calls, this was recommended because implication does not work in aria

rich: we need to come back to the taxonomy, its largely for modelling purposes, we have another spec that wants to override like a list with a different role, we need to figure out how to handle that in the aria spec

… if it subclasses list, do we know if it can have listitems

… normally dealing with inheritance of states and properties, we haven’t dealt with descendants

… because some things have multiple inheritance

rich: another way to do this: if someone iz extending the aria spec, we’ve talked about extending objects, but extending list etc needs to be worked out
... the other big thing I think is whether something is a landmark or just a group of items, its not clear which things you consider to be landmarks

<richardschwerdtfeger> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/dpub-aam/dpub-aam.html

… if you view the mapping spec, go down to role mappings view as table, you can see which things are landmarks, groups or panels

rich: is dpub-locator a link?

markus: yes

rich: why wouldnt we just have link?

markus: [explains locator]

rich: this reminds me about what we are looking at for cognitive
... this is a function rather than a role

… cognitive wants to say e.g. that a button accesses the help system or makes a purchase, used also for styling

rich: its almost like you want a new attribute
... look at the api mappings: on mac, role is link and subrole locator, but if you land on it and it says locator that is confusing, we are going to say one or the other to the user

… for UI automation they only give you one vehicle to tell you, if we have another attribute, its a way to convey information

tzviya: it doesnt duplicate the generic back function

… and it is activatable

<tzviya> markus: these are <a href role ="locator">

<tzviya> rich: you definitely want to say role ="link", because AT does not know what locators are

<tzviya> ...we almost need an ARIA function that we can use for Cognitive and DPUB

<tzviya> ...I will talk to Lisa Seaman

<a href=“” role=“link dpub-locator”>…</a>

<tzviya> tzviya: anything that ends with *ref is a link

<richardschwerdtfeger> <a href=“” role=“dpub-locator link:>. …

<richardschwerdtfeger> <a href=“” role=“link” aria-func=“dpub-locator”>. …

<tzviya> rich: recommends last of listed options. This would be a property

<tzviya> tzviya: are you recommending removing these roles from DPUB?

<tzviya> rich: don't change anything yet. Will get back to you shortly

<tzviya> rich: I also need to know which roles are landmarks and which are groups

<tzviya> ...I am asking Cynthia if the strings should have the prefix or not

<tzviya> rich: One would expect AT to expose landmarks in a hierachical view of page

<tzviya> tzviya: we'll take a look at the existing landmarks and assess


<tzviya> tzviya: DPUB meets on Thu/Fri. Afternoon so that Markus can call

<tzviya> tzviya: tentative meeting for Thursday afternoon 2pm

<tzviya> rrsagents, make minutes public

Summary of Action Items

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Present: janina tzviya Janina ivan Markus Rich_Schwerdtfeger

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Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-dpub-aria/2015Sep/0010.html
Got date from IRC log name: 24 Sep 2015
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2015/09/24-dpub-aria-minutes.html
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