See also: IRC log
<trackbot> Date: 24 September 2015
<richardschwerdtfeger> W3C WAI-PF ARIA Caucus
<richardschwerdtfeger> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2015Sep/0189.html
<scribe> Scribe: Stefan
http://www.w3.org/2015/09/17-aria-minutes.html
The issue 633 branch visible at: http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/mck_issue633/aria/aria.html
<mck> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/mck_issue633/aria/aria.html#grid
Matt: there was feedback for grid
role last week
... incorporated feedback in article feed role
The issue 633 branch visible at: http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/mck_issue633/aria/aria.html
<richardschwerdtfeger> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/mck_issue633/aria/aria.html#articlefeed
<clown> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/mck_issue633/aria/aria.html#roles_categorization
Matt: articlefeed role: I rewrote the description
Joseph: the first paragraph of the role description should have one sentence. If it has a second, it is to alert the reader to a related role
Matt: everything ok with this approach?
+q
Rich: keyboard interaction pattern?
Matt: no, it's structural
-q
Rich: What about changing feeds with keyboard?
Matt: in APG we can make some fairly strong statements
Rich: what about mobile devices?
Stefan: best practices in APG
should cover interactive articles being part of
articlefeed
... .. with respect to keyboard support
Matt: when peple are using screen readers they want to read the content, also by structure
Rich: what about aria-feedappendcount or aria-feedprependcount
Matt: they are not changing constantly .. author marks feed busy
Rich: but they are changing, do you expect AT to notice the changes?
Matt: yes they should evaluate onChange event on busy ..
Rich: Joseph ae we firing firing change events on busy by spec?
Joseph: thinks so
<clown> http://w3c.github.io/aria/core-aam/core-aam.html#event-aria-busy
Matt: you could do this also for indefinitely scrolling grid
Rich: why we need feed in name?
Matt: tried to generalize that by
this way
... this can be even further generalized for tables fetching
fdata
Stefan: we need proper signaling for data fetching to AT
Joanie: we have this property, no matter if it maps or not
Matt: if you have list in acctree with n children, and property how many children are added and removed this will be useful tied to a state change
Rich: feeds are a bottomless pit .. I don't see any value
Matt: true when adding bstaff to the end, but not for the beginning -> useful or AT to know the offset
Rich: I can see the point
Matt: don't limit to particular
use case
... there are other use cases
... feeds are not constantly changing normally ...
Rich: Important to know how many things have been added
Matt: the more AT knows about it, the better, generally
Stefan: being busy is exactly when child elements are being added or removed .. I wonder why in some screen reader implementations you still can navigate these regions although they are currently updated
Matt: use of aria-busy is meant to help people to understand that
Joseph: indicates that "significant" changes are made - what means that?
Rich: some of the text for aria-busy is way over the top -- tooo AT specific
<clown> http://w3c.github.io/aria/aria/aria.html#aria-busy
MichaelC: spec should just define not too much AT details
Rich: giving examples is fine
Matt: we can wipe out the educational piece
Rich: challenge is here: is it live?
<Zakim> clown, you wanted to ask what "changes to the element" mean?
Matt: aria-busy is not a
presentational property .. shoukld be misued
... aria-busy is just saying to AT: ignore events going on
here
MichaelC: belongs in implementation guide not in the spec
Matt: I will start over
Rich: I still don't know why the
additional properties for feed exist
... if something is busy it means it is interactive, not dead
(static table is never busy)
Matt: application is busy
... NOT and NEVER content
... application is busy updating content -this is the
message
Rich: you are saying any element can be live?????
Matt: this was as and will be true forever
Rich: aria-busy was only applied to widgets and live regions because they are interactive and can change
<clown> "For example, until a section of a page is fully initialized and complete, an author could mark the document element as busy."
Rich: a table is static and here saying aria-busy makes no sense in this definition
Joseph: aria-busy not defined means "false" right now
Joanie: if false, I don't remove
or add children, I would always presume
... is AT using it this way???
... aria-busy=true on a table -> ah contents of this table
are going to change
Stefan: a table is an interactive widget in the sense that on user scrolling it can be programmed to fetch data (rows)
Rich: Some Resolutions ahead.
....
... The feed stuff will get hairy
<richardschwerdtfeger> Indicates whether an element, and its subtree, are currently being updated.
Joanie: Matt is talking about latest version and master, there he uses the term "populated" .. makes more sense
<clown> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/aria/aria.html#aria-busy
<joanie> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/aria/aria.html#aria-busy
<joanie> Indicates that a live region or widget is being populated.
Joanie: don't you think
"populated" is the right term?
... do you think "populated" is the right term?
... populated means "being added"
Matt: we can reduce number of words here
MichaelC: we also potentially
want to hide abstract roles from the spec (minimalistic
view)
... it is a way to address different users of spec
Joanie: do you work on action 1073?
Rich: (to Joanie) Joanie: do you work on action 1073?
• https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1073
<clown> Indicates the current "selected" state of various widgets
<clown> Change to "Indicates the current "selected" state of various widgets, and whether the element is selectable"
<clown> ?
Rich: we will close this as obsololete
<clown> action-1361?
<trackbot> action-1361 -- Matthew King to Suggest new text for the application role -- due 2015-06-11 -- OPEN
<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1361
RESOLUTION: Close ACTION 1073 (obsolete)
<clown> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/mck_issue633/aria/aria.html#application
<clown> wow…
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.140 of Date: 2014-11-06 18:16:30 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/short sentence needed to alert the reader/the first paragraph of the role description should have one sentence. If it has a second, it is to alert the reader to a related role/ Found Scribe: Stefan Inferring ScribeNick: Stefan Present: janina fesch Joseph_Scheuhammer Joanmarie_Diggs Regrets: Cynthia_Shelly Found Date: 24 Sep 2015 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2015/09/24-aria-minutes.html People with action items: WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines. You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option.[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]