<Ian> scribe: Ian

What Telcos need

Intro

Natasha: I'm AC rep of GSMA, and co-Chair of web and mobile IG
... I hang out with payments folks
... we are missing some people today so we may have to move to email as well
... I speak quickly sorry!
... feel free to tell me to slow down

Background

<schuki> https://www.w3.org/Payments/IG/wiki/StakeholderPriorities

UNKNOWN_SPEAKER: goal is to gather stakeholder wishes, needs for standards
... to help IG determine next priorities
... so we're going to collect data across stakeholders and provide overview at FTF meeting
... I chatted with Ian late last week
... we had a discussion around the payments work happening within GSMA
... and the mobile operators that are working within gSMA
... we call this the digital commerce project
... talked about some work that might fit in neatly here.
... so here are some user stories and POSSIBLE ideas for standardization; but those are for discussion
... if you want to support these things please say "Yes, this is important" and also feel free to offer additional ideas outside of my comments

User Stories

<schuki> https://github.com/w3c-webmob/payments-use-cases/blob/master/existingpaymentsolutions.md

<schuki> http://www.w3.org/TR/web-payments-use-cases/

-> GSMA Digital commerce http://www.gsma.com/digitalcommerce/

Remote payments

UNKNOWN_SPEAKER: frustration needing to pay (e.g., for tickets) on a mobile phone
... diabolic experience personally
... we recognize this is good for consumers to fix this, but there are also strong business cases for merchants that want to increase conversion rates, and also for merchant acquirers
... and for mobile operators to offer payment solutions using existing infrastructure or software they have already

<manu> Ian: Better definition of remote payments?

<manu> Natasha: You're away from the merchant.

Natasha: Means you are not physically at a merchant store.

<manu> Ian: So, on the desktop, or on your mobile, etc.

Natasha: GSMA's focus for remote is "mobile" but for our purposes, it would include desktop as well

<manu> Ian: We've discussed "proximity" as well.

Natasha: One use case that may trigger regulatory questions - one click checkout

<manu> Ian: Regulatory concerns?

Natasha: I think that in some countries they need 2 confirmations
... so in some countries you have to say "I want to buy" and then "Yes, I reiterate that I want to buy; I'm sure"

Vincent: On 1-click checkout you need to consider revocation of purchase within a particular period (e.g., 14 days in Belgium or france to cancel payment)

Natasha: Thanks for raising that!

mobile money code of conduct

natasha: We have a document ... might be of interest to the IG

-> http://www.gsma.com/mobilefordevelopment/programmes/mobile-money-for-the-unbanked/code-of-conduct

<Zakim> manu, you wanted to ask about ISO12812 and how much importance GSMA puts on that standard.

Manu: Will you cover iso 12812 here?

Natasha: Was not planning to

Manu: Question for you offline - is GSMA looking at this

Natasha: I will find out

<AdrianHB> +1 - good question

Vincent: I'm part of that WG .. some of the topics you are looking at are covered in 12812....not yet completed

<manu> Ian: A follow-up on remote payments - great model - you talked about user experience about doing something - then you talked about business value for different stakeholders.

<manu> Ian: So, what I didn't hear clearly was the value proposition for mobile operators for remote payments. Anytime MNOs can sell connectivity, that's a good thing.

Natasha: Mobile operators will be diversifying

<manu> Ian: What's the value MNOs hope to provide/capture around payments

Natasha: they will use their infrastructure / network and leverage customer relationships...and they have transactional data
... so strengthening relationship with users
... mobile operators also want to deliver services through existing relationships with merchant acquirers

<Zakim> manu, you wanted to ask about different types of diversification - mobile wallets, payment services, merchant services, is there a prioritized list?

Manu: does GSMA keep a list of the types of diversification that interest MNOs? Is there a survey or list of priorities that MNOs are interested in? E.g., are they really interested in mobile wallets this year and not so much extending services to merchants? or really keen on mobile money, etc.?
... I realize it's regional as well, but do you have data about the interests?

Natasha: So perhaps some overview about who this information is collected...
... GSMA pulls consensus from industry to drive programs
... I know it's not hard data, but these topics that I'm bringing up are thus representative IMO
... I imagine that if data exists, it would be under NDA
... I can investigate that

(Two actions for Natasha so far (1) Find out 12812 (2) find data about priorities.)

Wallet

Natasha: Lots of people want to enable....how to do so is the main question. Two things come up:

a) Tokenization

b) Identity

scribe: a lot of telcos have strong relations with customers so identity programs are becoming popular in this industry
... in Japan we have things like KDDI"s ID and Wallet programs which are successful
... I believe AT&T also has a solution for this
... and mobile connect, the federated offering through GSMA operators

-> http://www.gsma.com/personaldata/mobile-connect Mobile Connect

scribe: this has sparked interest in easier log-in
... identity stuff is related to existing standards from OpenID foundation, as well as challenge-based approaches for authentication

<AdrianHB> https://openid.net/wg/mobile/

scribe: Visa and MasterCard have been doing work on tokenization for some time

[IJ: and EMVCO]

<AdrianHB> https://mobileconnect.io/

scribe: so question is whether people here see need to bring identity/tokenization into W3C

<manu> Ian: I have an interoperability question - MNOs are using their existing approaches to identify people when they enroll for their accounts with operators.

<manu> Ian: The identifier, typically for those people, is a phone number.

<manu> Natasha: It's a PAN

<manu> Ian: Are there identifier interoperability needs that you perceive between the moment of enrollment (when you assign an identifier to someone), and at other points in a payment transaction. Is there a need for additional standardization for these identifiers.

<manu> Ian: My sense from the bank discussion - it seems like they have their internal scheme identifiers, and that's fine.

<manu> Ian: If you're paying merchants, and you want to extend the mobile money mechanism to pay merchants more easily from mobile money accounts - to what extent do people need to standardize identifiers.

Natasha: Problem is tracking

<manu> Natasha: This is a big data question - is it a good thing "yes"... is it possible "it's difficult". If we looked at trying to unify the identifier across industries - is standardization needed? Yes, most likely. There are big concerns around security/privacy - who is making payments, etc.

<manu> Natasha: There are privacy concerns.

<manu> scribe: manu

Natasha: A standardized identifier would be very good - but privacy problems abound - we need to look into that deeply.

Vincent: It's not only about having a unique identifier, not only about security, it's also about jurisdictional regulation. Different parties need to report in a standardized way, in the security domain, we have to report certain thigns to regulators.
... Where they force the industry to move to a specific standard - it comes from the regulatory side - we have to be careful about that.

Natasha: Yes, good point.

Vincent: For every payment, you have to make sure you're in compliance with AML, card network, etc.

Natasha: Once people bring up stuff like this, I don't want to say "no you can't do it" - it's just "very very very difficult".
... We use AC records in the UK to identify users - lots of places around the world still use them.

APIs

Natasha: API-like standardization is interesting - maybe around making an identity request - maybe around making a specific payment request (specifically, Javascript APIs - wallet and tokenization topics)
... That may be another interesting topic to look like - traditional style W3C standards - don't know if anyone else has had experience w/ APIs in their organization - this would be great if they were standardized.
... We've found a lot of difficulty around standardizing APIs in mobile community - WAC is one example.
... Those are the topics that I had - wanted to see if anyone had other topics - other things they wanted to add to that list?
... We're missing some people today - hopefully if we move those items to the list - we'll get some feedback from folks.
... These topics that I've collected - I could just wrap these up in a document and send them over.
... We could have a better conversation about that on the list - general idea on stakeholder requirements.

https://www.w3.org/Payments/IG/wiki/StakeholderPriorities

https://www.w3.org/Payments/IG/wiki/StakeholderPriorities#Mobile_Operators

<dezell> +1 to editing into the Wiki!

Manu: If you could modify the wiki, that'd be great.

Natasha: Ok, will add those - Vincent - please look through the list as well.

<Zakim> manu, you wanted to ask that the list is moved to wiki.

Natasha: Hopefully, some of the others will join in.

manu: +1 for putting the notes together! :)

dezell: I think this all sounds good - exactly on track - trying to make sure we have good discussion in Japan (W3C TPAC)

Discussion around TPAC and Japan and excitement.

Natasha: We'll get discussion going in GSMA Web WG plenary that I'll raise these topics.

dezell: Thanks for putting this together! :)

This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.140  of Date: 2014-11-06 18:16:30  
Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/

Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)

Succeeded: s/Stores/Stories/
Succeeded: s/presnet/present/
Succeeded: s/WAP/WAC/
Found Scribe: Ian
Inferring ScribeNick: Ian
Found Scribe: manu
Inferring ScribeNick: manu
Scribes: Ian, manu
ScribeNicks: Ian, manu
Present: Ju Ian Manu Adrian Natasha dezell

WARNING: No meeting title found!
You should specify the meeting title like this:
<dbooth> Meeting: Weekly Baking Club Meeting

Got date from IRC log name: 02 Sep 2015
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2015/09/02-wpay-minutes.html
People with action items: