See also: IRC log
<scribe> scribe: clapierre
<tzviya> http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/a-nerds-guide-to-the-2229-paintings-at-moma/
A11Y DPUB TF will change our weekly meetings from Fridays at 8AM PDT to 10AM PDT / 1PM EDT moving forward
topic, Update on PF/ARIA describedAt meeting this week
<tzviya> http://www.w3.org/2015/08/extended-description-analysis
george, looks like details will be recomended as a solution to replace describedAt. Rich wants to add a src to it, which would allow you to add a link to the details outside the document. details is HTML 5.1. Some browsers are implementing this already. Microsoft is pushing back on adding it to Edge.
tzviya, its not a foregon conclusion to use details yet, but looks promising. If everyone agrees on this they may add a short extension added to HTML 5 to support this.
deborah, there seems to be multiple options to add to details, src, and other options to make it more robust.
tzviya, we also need media query to show/hide details etc.
ack, mgylling
mgylling, in the grid second table, we don't want to forget. AT should have an unambiguous way to define the link.
row 6 in the second table.
george, this would work for diagrammar as well.
mgylling, role = longdesc (ie. in theory, but not longdesc specifically)
tzviya, property role attribute would work without AT, and also indicating if Java Script is required.
tzviya, will compile all our suggestions and pass it along to PF/Aria group
george: are we happy with details?
mia: I think so, 1. its not fully established yet, we don't know who will implement it. IE? Firefox?
… as an Idea yes, but seems like this is the best solution
deborah: chrome is not almost ever the browser of choice for screen reader users
mia: if we can't use this on WIndows this will be an issue.
George: we won't get this in IE.
mia: we need Edge
George: and Firefox.
Markus: this will be an issue no matter what solution we choose.
Tzviya: once we add media queries we can make it disappear with a specific browser.
George: when we figure out what we are willing to support, we really need to get behind it. Best practices, quickstart guides, top tips. needs to be advocated for this.
George: MathML was a hot topic of discussion.
…, latest thing is Tzviya said: Publishers should know their market, and if their audience requires MathML, and that the reading systems used in education would support the MathML.
Tzviya: reality is MathML isn't supported everywhere and publishers need to know their audience and what it supports with respect to MathML
Mia: updated on layout and page #'s. Please take a look. Page #'s had to do with pagination with a different respect, from web page to a printer. How to define what goes into the margins / header/footers etc… Even thou this is a different problem we may be able to use some of that in our work to spark ideas etc.
George: is the issue that a person using AT to print something ?
Mia: the problem we have with a doc. with a printed document with a page # how to navigate in the web page. We need to have this accessible to Screen Readers but not interrupt the reading experience. If the page size changes that you are still getting the correct page # in respect to print.
…, print from web and they need to figure out the dim of paper, and adding headers/footers/page #'s and there is a way to get that metadata. so there may be something similar for our purpose.
…, if there was a way to get this information and accessible with screen readers.
Tzviya: what we want to highlight is the accessible page
…, we don't want to make the distinction between webpage and print.
Charles: what should be done about the appendix on WCAG Google Docs?
…, can we add the information we thought was important, questions etc. from the good doc into the appendix.
Tzviya: yes that sounds like a good place to start.
George: skipability / escapability lot of this is on the Daisy website. In relation to a text based document, this is my biggest question. are we concerned about textbased document when you can skip / escape. How do you want me to approach this?
Tzviya: clarification is our note on text based publication.
George: skip announcing of page #'s Eg"She pulls the gun and, Page 123"
Deborah: we need to solve for pure text based, or SMIL file audio/video needs to also be escape / skip not only text but any audio / video publications as well.
Tzviya: some companies that don't use epub, they can finish reading their book on multiple devices. AUdio file when jogging and continue reading on phone text based...
George: not sure if this is skip/esc
Deborah: well we need to be able to skip/esc in various formats text, time based media etc…
Tzviya: we should talk about timing of all this.
Deoborah: all this research / planning etc.. for describedat has sucked a lot of time
Mia: for me things may be a little better, since school has now started, things should slow down.
Charles: would TPAC would be a great time to show this.
George: we should do it well in advance then.
Deoborah: Sept. will be busy.
Tzviya: we could have items to discuss at TPAC. and have the Note a month or 2 later.
…, ARIA wants to talk to us at TPAC.
George: is the issue that the rec. for alt-text is a fundamental A requirement and is a #1 priority for DPUB?
…, its A in WCAG and publishers need to add this into their production process.
…, recommendation from WCAG on images, deceratitive images etc..
…, not sure if role=presentation is for decorative images.
Tzviya: this may be changes in ARIA 1.1 where role=none instead.
…, publishing recommendations, diagrammer keep them up to date on these changes.
…, maybe we need to reach out to education and outreach WG to keep us in the loop so we can keep up to date on all the changes going on with WAI.
<tzviya> https://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Oct_2015_F2F_Logistics_and_Details
tzviya, please add to this on recommended meeting to be had.
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.140 of Date: 2014-11-06 18:16:30 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/always/almost ever/ Succeeded: s/AT/screen reader users/ Succeeded: s/smile/SMIL/ Found Scribe: clapierre Inferring ScribeNick: clapierre Present: Tzviya_Siegman Deborah_Kaplan Charles LaPierre Mia Lipner George Kerscher Markus WARNING: No meeting title found! You should specify the meeting title like this: <dbooth> Meeting: Weekly Baking Club Meeting WARNING: No meeting chair found! You should specify the meeting chair like this: <dbooth> Chair: dbooth Got date from IRC log name: 28 Aug 2015 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2015/08/28-DPUB-minutes.html People with action items: WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines. You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option.[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]