W3C

- DRAFT -

Protocols and Formats Working Group Teleconference

27 Aug 2015

See also: IRC log

Attendees

Present
jaeunjemmaku, fesch, Joanmarie_Diggs, janina, Tzviya, Rich, JamesNurthen, Bryan_Garaventa, MichielBijl, Joseph_Scheuhammer
Regrets
Chair
Rich
Scribe
Janina

Contents


<trackbot> Date: 27 August 2015

<richardschwerdtfeger> Meeting: W3C WAI-PF ARIA Caucus

<richardschwerdtfeger> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2015Aug/0083.html

<richardschwerdtfeger> scribe: Janina

aria-describedat details/summary

<richardschwerdtfeger> http://www.w3.org/2015/08/extended-description-analysis

rs: details/summary still under examination as possible solution
... conversation ongoing with Microsoft re implementation in Edge
... Will also need a media querry property for hide/show config
... Believe will be OK if we can get implementation in Edge committed

Charter Status

janina: No news today

rs: Noting two formal objections

janina: that's what's blocking, nothing else

Action-1703

<richardschwerdtfeger> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1703

action-1703?

<trackbot> action-1703 -- Richard Schwerdtfeger to Ask the aria task force about the need for a special figure role that would be brought up in a list of figures. also, discuss whether this would be a suitable default role for html figure. -- due 2015-08-21 -- OPEN

<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1703

<Stefan> +q

rs: valuable to retrieve a full list of figures in a doc
... rather like landmark, but for figures
... should it be applied to HTML figure

stefan: yes, this would be valuable
... brings us more intune with host lang

jd: wondering whether figure is typically like a diagram

rs: yes

fe: also usable in svg as a view
... a part of the larger graphic that could stand alone, with its own integral semantic value

jd: so svg figure and html figure pretty parallel concepts

rs: yes

jd: then I agree

fe: noting that svg "view" is a perspective representation
... applicable to "panel charts" -- a region that could stand alone, if desired

rs: so a list of these would be helpful
... so does the TF support a figure role, and should we promote to html

<fesch> +1 for figure role

<joanie> +1 for figure role

stefan: asking about fig-caption, etc

rs: could use aria-label ... ...

fe: fig-caption is optional for a texted explanation

stefan: so the aria role could function as fig-caption substitute

[agreement]

rs: looking at html aam mappings for fig-caption ...

stefan: concerned that we are able to distinguish one figure in the list from another

rs: noting used in name calc -- noting edge support now
... so unique name or descript at the least
... proposing to intro a new figure element and can draft text

<fesch> +1 for figure element

rs: proposing we don't want to subclass region
... because region comes up in list of landmarks

jd: for discussion -- why is figure not a landmark?

rs: it actually is, but we want to be able to display them separately

fe: could be wierd if it drops one into the middle of an svg

stefan: wondering to what html figure is associated -- what's its parent?

rs: unaware
... could subclass group potentially

jd: aria-activedescendent inheritance problem if subclassed group

<richardschwerdtfeger> RESOLUTION: Create a new role called figure that subclases the section role

<richardschwerdtfeger> ACTION: Rich Create proposed text for a new figure role to Joanie to put in a brancth for review [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/08/27-aria-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-1708 - Create proposed text for a new figure role to joanie to put in a brancth for review [on Richard Schwerdtfeger - due 2015-09-03].

<richardschwerdtfeger> ACTION: Rich get with Steve Faulkner to discuss the HTML figure element mapping to role figure [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/08/27-aria-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-1709 - Get with steve faulkner to discuss the html figure element mapping to role figure [on Richard Schwerdtfeger - due 2015-09-03].

<richardschwerdtfeger> RESOLUTION: Close Action 1703

action-1578

action-1578?

<trackbot> action-1578 -- Richard Schwerdtfeger to Discuss issue-700 in aria task force meeting. -- due 2015-08-27 -- OPEN

<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1578

<richardschwerdtfeger> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/700

<joanie> https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=146239#c7

jd: last comment, awaiting response

rs: I expect we're not creating a special role, correct?

jd: yes

rs: anything else to do with this?

jd: no

RESOLUTION: Close issue-700 as discussed and resolved to be an AAM concern

action-1546?

<trackbot> action-1546 -- David Bolter to Make sure the rowgroup mapping for msaa/ia2 is accurate -- due 2014-12-23 -- CLOSED

<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1546

close action-1578

<trackbot> Closed action-1578.

action0-1646

action-1646?

<trackbot> action-1646 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Add clarifying text to readonly and required properties -- due 2015-06-11 -- PENDINGREVIEW

<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1646

jd: done

Action 1646

<richardschwerdtfeger> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1646

action-1646

jd: created a branch, and created text as follows:

<joanie> While the columnheader role can be used in both interactive grids and non-interactive tables, the use of aria-readonly and aria-required is only applicable to interactive elements. Therefore, authors should not use aria-required or aria-readonly in a columnheader that descends from a table, and user agents should not expose either property to assistive technologies unless the columnheader descends from a grid.

jn: if the only interactivity is sorting, is that necessarily a grid?

jd: believe so

jn: much overhead

rs: unsure, not yet raised, but intend to raise deprecating grid

jn: but requires a full kybd model

rs: so how to get to the element to activate the sort?
... should it be navigable?
... what about a spreadsheet like table where only option is scroll?

jd: still unclear what's wrong with my proposed text

jn: think it's ok

rs: ok

RESOLUTION: Accept Joanie's response to Action-1646

open actions and issues

action-1490

<trackbot> action-1490 -- James Nurthen to Propose spec text edit for issue-610: comboboxes should allow complex children elements -- due 2014-10-06 -- OPEN

<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1490

jn: it's the interactive thing ...

rs: so we need matt, etc

action-1537

<trackbot> action-1537 -- Richard Schwerdtfeger to Research pulling together a group to address some aapi extensions e.g., getcomputedrole -- due 2015-08-27 -- OPEN

<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1537

rs: many balls in the air, such as a new api as proposed by cynthia
... we set this out last tpac
... is this 1.1 or is it aria-2.0

janina: not seeing a solid reason to keep this in 1.1

jd: we need to feature freeze

<MichielBijl> +1

<JaEunJemmaKu> +1

RESOLUTION: Move action-1537 to ARIA-2.0 to be resumed with the browser api work

action-1676

<trackbot> action-1676 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Remove directory as a superclass of tablist -- due 2015-07-07 -- PENDINGREVIEW

<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1676

jd: why is directory a superclass of tablist?

rs: a list of places to go???
... not an abstract class ... a list of references to members of a group

bg: same mapping as list

rs: is there inheritance problem somewhere?

jd: discovered with marked interactive
... made wierd things happen

rs: agree we need to postpone this to interaction discussion

jd: should be closed "won't fix" for now ?

action-1676

<trackbot> action-1676 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Remove directory as a superclass of tablist -- due 2015-07-07 -- PENDINGREVIEW

<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1676

action-1677

<trackbot> action-1677 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Remove input as a superclass of scrollbar and select -- due 2015-07-07 -- PENDINGREVIEW

<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1677

action-1675

<trackbot> action-1675 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Remove list as a superclass of menu and listbox -- due 2015-07-07 -- OPEN

<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1675

jd: should these stay open? or closed "won't fix" until we return to interactive discussion

rs: could move to interactive issue
... related to inheritance cleanup
... moving to issue-633

close issue-722

<trackbot> Closed issue-722.

issue-736

issue-736

<trackbot> issue-736 -- aria-label overriding listitem and treeitem content when need to know content is valuable -- open

<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/736

<clown> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2015Aug/0087.html

Issue 736

clown: would actually like to say "a list item sometimes requires a name"

<joanie> jd: I believe in the case of ARIA, a listitem is never a widget.

<joanie> jd: I think in ARIA, those objects would have role option.

<joanie> jd: Role option should have a name required, of course.

<joanie> jd: I don't think think an ARIA listitem is ever a widget. Furthermore, I think we don't want listitems to have names.

<joanie> jd: In addition, we need to get in touch with Steve Faulkner because the original concern I raised with the extreme names was HTML related (an li element).

rs: proposal to drop required and name from content
... need to vet this around as is significant

<richardschwerdtfeger> ACTION: Rich get with Freedom Scientific to discuss name from content removal from listitems and no longer requiring names on lists [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/08/27-aria-minutes.html#action03]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-1710 - Get with freedom scientific to discuss name from content removal from listitems and no longer requiring names on lists [on Richard Schwerdtfeger - due 2015-09-03].

<richardschwerdtfeger> ACTION: Joseph Get with Alex Surkov to discuss name from content removal from listitems and no longer requiring names on lists [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/08/27-aria-minutes.html#action04]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-1711 - Get with alex surkov to discuss name from content removal from listitems and no longer requiring names on lists [on Joseph Scheuhammer - due 2015-09-03].

<richardschwerdtfeger> ACTION: Joanie Get with Apple to discuss name from content removal from listitems and no longer requiring names on lists [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/08/27-aria-minutes.html#action05]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-1712 - Get with apple to discuss name from content removal from listitems and no longer requiring names on lists [on Joanmarie Diggs - due 2015-09-03].

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: Joanie Get with Apple to discuss name from content removal from listitems and no longer requiring names on lists [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/08/27-aria-minutes.html#action05]
[NEW] ACTION: Joseph Get with Alex Surkov to discuss name from content removal from listitems and no longer requiring names on lists [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/08/27-aria-minutes.html#action04]
[NEW] ACTION: Rich Create proposed text for a new figure role to Joanie to put in a brancth for review [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/08/27-aria-minutes.html#action01]
[NEW] ACTION: Rich get with Freedom Scientific to discuss name from content removal from listitems and no longer requiring names on lists [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/08/27-aria-minutes.html#action03]
[NEW] ACTION: Rich get with Steve Faulkner to discuss the HTML figure element mapping to role figure [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/08/27-aria-minutes.html#action02]
 
[End of minutes]

Minutes formatted by David Booth's scribe.perl version 1.140 (CVS log)
$Date: 2015/08/27 18:00:21 $

Scribe.perl diagnostic output

[Delete this section before finalizing the minutes.]
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.140  of Date: 2014-11-06 18:16:30  
Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/

Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)

Succeeded: s/fig?/figure/
Succeeded: s/API/browser api/
Found Scribe: Janina
Inferring ScribeNick: janina
Default Present: jaeunjemmaku, fesch, Joanmarie_Diggs, janina, Tzviya, Rich, JamesNurthen, Bryan_Garaventa, MichielBijl, Joseph_Scheuhammer
Present: jaeunjemmaku fesch Joanmarie_Diggs janina Tzviya Rich JamesNurthen Bryan_Garaventa MichielBijl Joseph_Scheuhammer
Found Date: 27 Aug 2015
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2015/08/27-aria-minutes.html
People with action items: alex apple faulkner freedom get joanie joseph rich scientific steve surkov with

WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines.
You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option.


[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]