See also: IRC log
<trackbot> Date: 23 July 2015
<scribe> scribe: nigel
nigel: Runs through likely agenda. Any other business?
group: No AOB
nigel: Glenn sent an update
before the meeting - he has nothing to report on his
actions.
... Andreas, how is Action-406 looking, re HTMLCue?
atai: It's on my list, but nothing to report now.
Action-409?
<trackbot> Action-409 -- Nigel Megitt to Discuss liaison with unicode with richard ishida -- due 2015-07-09 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/409
nigel: I got a response from
Richard Ishida.
... http://sandflow.com/public/cldr/imsc-codepoint-table.htm
... He asks why there are very few blue characters in some
locales.
pal: The blue characters are the
ones that are already in the main and punctuation and digit
character
... sets for those locales. The non-blue ones show those that
would effectively be added to the
... existing character sets for each locale. I'm happy to
clarify that if it was not clear in the original
... communication.
nigel: He also suggests that
Unicode would want us to propose how the characters would
be
... integrated into CLDR, i.e. are we proposing new categories
including all the characters or just
... new categories for the additional characters for subtitles
and captions.
pal: I think for ease of review,
just including the delta is going to be harder for the reviewer
to look at
... instead of the full set of characters including those that
are already in the main and punctuation
... sets. I'm interested in the feedback from this group. I
found that when I just tried to generate
... the delta, i.e. just those characters that are not already
present in Main and Punctuation that leads
... to a disjointed set. I think it would be easier for
reviewers to see the whole set. Also perhaps in
... some languages there is a real difference between
characters typically used in everyday print
... media or chat, etc, compared with those available and
appropriate for subtitling and captions.
nigel: There's a trade-off
between ease of review and ease of maintenance, if Unicode has
to add
... any new code points to two sets for each locale instead of
one.
pal: We could propose an
algorithm. I am happy to propose a more detailed proposal if
that's what
... you sense is what they want.
nigel: I do get the sense from
Richard that Mark would like something quite detailed and
specific
... as a proposal to review.
pal: Okay I'm happy to propose that with a set of rules.
action-409: [Meeting 2015-07-23] pal to generate a more detailed proposal of what we're asking Unicode to do.
<trackbot> Notes added to action-409 Discuss liaison with unicode with richard ishida.
issue-399?
<trackbot> issue-399 -- add errata for initial value fallback language -- open
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/399
pal: In seeking feedback on IMSC
I didn't understand the style inheritance rules, but in
answering my
... question on the topic Glenn found an issue that he's
proposing to fix.
nigel: I'm not sure what the impact of that is.
pal: Me too. It's a complex algorithm, so I'm not sure what the impact is.
reopen issue-399
<trackbot> Re-opened issue-399.
nigel: The issue has the email
thread attached, which is helpful.
... Is this to do with the inheritance of styles either from
regions or from styles?
pal: Yes, exactly. There are lots of combinations of inheriting from parent elements, specifying styles inline and others.
nigel: I looked at that once a
while back in assisting with an implementation, and it turned
out to be
... surprisingly simple for most styles, in that you just ended
up generating a list and searching for
... the first one of the required type, starting from the
correct end of the list. It was computationally
... simple, though I suspect there are complexities that we may
have missed, and things like fontSize
... expressed in % are of course relative to the parent.
nigel: I may have mentioned
before, but in case I didn't, registration is open.
... http://www.w3.org/2015/10/TPAC/
for the details of registration.
... Also https://www.w3.org/wiki/TimedText/tpac2015
for our own registration and agenda.
Courtney: We're making progress on this, nothing to bring to the group yet.
pal: Have you run into any major issues, or is it merely a question of filling the holes in a framework.
Courtney: We're taking the
approach of defining a profile in TTML that will map to WebVTT,
which
... was Andreas's idea. We may want to extend it in the future.
By taking a subset of TTML it makes
... the mapping pretty straightforward in some ways.
pal: That was the plan in Las Vegas I think. What's the relation between that and IMSC1?
atai: I think it should be a subset of IMSC1.
pal: Can you tell now which features from IMSC1 will be or will not be included? I'm happy to help by the way.
atai: I think there are some
features absent from IMSC, like aspectRatio,
progressivelyDecodable,
... multiRowAlign that are not mappable straight into WebVTT.
Possibly the best thing to do is to
... look at the list when we have the first draft ready.
Courtney: Possibly we could send
Pierre the profile to look at early, but we should have the
profile
... ready relatively soon.
atai: The intention of the
profile is to not include any features that cannot be mapped,
but also
... to restrict the TTML structure to make it easier to map to
WebVTT.
nigel: You mean algorithmically easy to map?
atai: Yes, for example the
timing. You can make certain aspects simpler to make it easier
to map.
... It needs to be seen in context rather than discussed on its
own. There's a lot to be done, which
... could be done inside TTML, like mapping to a certain state
that makes it comparable to WebVTT
... to make the mapping algorithm easier.
nigel: Is that coincident with Glenn's ISD plan?
atai: No I don't think so.
nigel: Rather than having two transformations it might be better to have one that's more useful.
pal: The reason I'm asking is I'm
getting requests from IMSC users. When is the target date for
a
... first draft?
Courtney: I don't know exactly -
we're going to have a call after this to sync up. I think some
time
... in August for a first draft.
nigel: That's great. Are there any other technical questions that have arisen from that work?
atai: Not from my side.
Courtney: I don't have any yet.
nigel: We've hit the end of our
agenda, so I'll adjourn the meeting. Thanks very much
everyone.
... [adjourns meeting]