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<trackbot> Date: 02 July 2015
<scribe> scribe: nigel
nigel: pal has asked me for an
agenda item on reaching to unicode, so we'll add that.
... Any other Other Business?
group: no
action-406?
<trackbot> action-406 -- Andreas Tai to Follow on creating a strawman re: html cue extension specification -- due 2015-06-25 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/406
atai2: I've had an informal
discussion with Opera and some others here as a result. We
discussed last
... time who will take the lead on creating a strawman proposal
to create an HTMLCue extension to
... take to the HTML WG. One proposal is Opera could do it
because they have already done some
... work on it. They are happy to help out based on their
existing knowledge and internal implementation
... but they cannot lead it over the next 6 months. I talked to
Giuseppe from Opera and he mentioned
... it would be possibly better to summarise the idea briefly
and see how much initial agreement
... there is from people working on the issue in this group
(HTML). I think that would be a good idea,
... to talk to the browser community about HTMLCue and test the
response. Possibly a complete
... draft is not necessary at this point because it's more a
question if the browser vendors are willing
... to accept this kind of extension. Then after that it would
be easier to decide who would take the
... lead on that. The bigger problem is to convince the
relevant groups to implement/support this as
... an HTML extension.
nigel: That sounds like a reasonable approach. Is the first strawman essentially an abstract? Who can do that?
atai2: I can work on that and
circulate it. We should mention also why it is useful to have a
generic
... approach that would allow other formats to be integrated in
the HTML browser environment.
... It's both to show the business case and the technical idea
behind it.
nigel: Thanks for volunteering. When would be a good date for the action?
atai2: Possibly 16th July
nigel: I've updated the action.
action-407?
<trackbot> action-407 -- Nigel Megitt to Determine summer schedule -- due 2015-07-02 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/407
nigel: Have I understood this correctly that it's about scheduling meetings?
tmichel: Yes, that's it.
nigel: I've had a couple of
responses. There's one absence on August 20th but apart from
that I've
... had no reason to cancel any meetings. Was there any other
concern that lead to this?
tmichel: No, I raised it because
some groups schedule a summer break. We can continue to
schedule
... meetings and if it looks like there won't be enough people
present then cancel a couple of days
... beforehand.
nigel: That works for me. I'll
leave the action open so people can send me their
non-availability.
... Otherwise we'll continue with weekly meetings as
normal.
Action-408?
<trackbot> Action-408 -- Thierry Michel to Coordinate with nigel re: tpac wiki page -- due 2015-07-02 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/408
nigel: What's behind this one?
tmichel: We currently have a wiki page:
<tmichel> https://www.w3.org/Team/wiki/TPAC/2015
nigel: I can't access that one - is there a TTWG one rather than a Team page?
tmichel: I'll create a page so people from TTWG can fill in their names, when they're coming etc.
Action-408: [meeting 2015-07-02] tmichel to create a TTWG accessible wiki page for TPAC 2015 logistics etc
<trackbot> Notes added to Action-408 Coordinate with nigel re: tpac wiki page.
nigel: Great, you could use the 2014 TPAC page as a basis if you want.
tmichel: Yes, I won't start from scratch!
issue-396?
<trackbot> issue-396 -- Invalid codepoints (el) -- raised
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/396
issue-397?
<trackbot> issue-397 -- Sync recommended codepoints with CFF-TT -- raised
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/397
pal: Issue-396 is pretty
straightforward: In the character set associated with Greek
there's a range,
... and there are 2 code points that are associated with no
Unicode characters. The correction is to
... remove those invalid Unicode code points from that
range.
... I suspect someone just copied the range not realising that
there are two invalid code points in there.
reopen issue-396
<trackbot> Re-opened issue-396.
pal: Issue-397 - I'm not sure it
demands immediate action. Based on the text in IMSC 1 that
combines
... the CLDR main and punctuation character sets and the named
codes has prompted DECE to update
... their spec to do the same thing. But that may be overtaken
by events if we choose to approach
... Unicode and recommend that they adopt character sets
specifically used in captioning. So I would
... hold off making any changes here until we've resolved what
to do with Unicode.
nigel: Now seems like a good time to come to that point. You have a proposal?
pal: Yes. We've mentioned a
couple of times briefly this idea and I thought it would be
good to make
... it concrete. Annex B of IMSC 1 contains recommended
character sets for a given language. The idea
... is that not all clients will implement all Unicode code
points. After much discussion where we
... ended up is combining the characters recommended by DECE,
found by studying existing content,
... with the CLDR character sets published by Unicode, which
are those characters in common use for
... each language. Right now Annex B is this combination of
CFF-TT and CLDR. The idea is to take this
... and submit to Unicode a proposal to add to CLDR character
sets specifically for subtitling and captioning
... applications per language per locale. The reason is that
characters used for captioning and subtitling
... are not necessarily those in common use. For example the
musical note is commonly used in
... subtitling and captioning, as are Latin characters that
wouldn't normally be used. So there would
... be a lot of benefit to adding subtitling and captioning
character sets to CLDR, which would have a
... wider benefit beyond TTWG. I've generated the sets of
characters based on Annex B and
... provided the analysis in an email I sent earlier. The next
step would be to approach Unicode and
... have that discussion.
<pal> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tt/2015Jun/0062.html
pal: If you go to the third link
in that email http://sandflow.com/public/cldr/imsc-codepoint-table.htm
... Those sets of characters were generated by applying the
algorithm in Annex B of IMSC 1. That's
... what you end up with for each of the specified locales in
IMSC1.
... To the best of my knowledge these are the characters in
common use. It'd be good for the folks
... at Unicode to take this over and maintain it.
... In fact I've had some conversation before with Unicode.
Their feedback was neither ecstatic
... nor negative. They asked for more details, which I think
the table provides. Now IMSC 1 is at a
... different level of maturity I think it will give them more
confidence in starting with this. The person
... I had been recommended to talk to by plh was ... I'll look
up the correct name.
atai2: Yes, that sounds like a
good approach and a reasonable activity. I'm wondering if this
should
... be a liaison from TTWG to Unicode to collaborate on such a
document or table or list. As you said
... the person you talked to Pierre was not overly
enthusiastic. But if there's a specific liaison letter
... explaining the use case and offering to collaborate with
our group that would be better.
pal: Exactly, my suggestion would
be to have a liaison. Mark Davis was the person I talked
to.
... I'm not sure exactly how the liaison would work with
Unicode, but I think he would be the right
... point of contact. The email I sent to the reflector
contains the proposed text, if you want to have
... a look.
<tmichel> go ahead Nigel send it to Richrd.
nigel: Our liaison with Unicode
is via Richard Ishida, so I'll check in with him whether this
is a good
... idea and then take it from there.
pal: I'm pretty sure Richard recommended Mark, so he may already be across this, since Shenzhen.
<scribe> ACTION: nigel Discuss liaison with Unicode with Richard Ishida [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/07/02-tt-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-409 - Discuss liaison with unicode with richard ishida [on Nigel Megitt - due 2015-07-09].
Action-409: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tt/2015Jun/0062.html
<trackbot> Notes added to Action-409 Discuss liaison with unicode with richard ishida.
nigel: In the meantime if everyone could review the proposed text that would be great.
reopen issue-397
<trackbot> Re-opened issue-397.
issue-397: [meeting 2015-07-02] Pending potential liaison with Unicode.
<trackbot> Notes added to issue-397 Sync recommended codepoints with CFF-TT.
nigel: As mentioned before,
Thierry is going to create a wiki page for us for this.
Also,
... registration is now open - see http://www.w3.org/2015/10/TPAC/
and follow the links.
... I recommend people look sooner rather than later as the
accommodation situation is somewhat
... more complex this year than it sometimes is.
... We'll need to open up for agenda items too - no immediate
urgency on that.
nigel: We've issued a Call for Implementation, right?
pal: Yes
tmichel: Yes. Pierre sent me last
week a first set of implementors so I've sent an email to
them,
... calling for implementation. We had agreed on this email
with Pierre and Nigel added a few things.
... It links to the WBS questionnaire that asks the implementor
to respond. I will be collecting these
... answers to build the Implementation Report. This will be
the source. Also I will merge any emails
... sent to me with text answers. I plan to do the final merge
in September once we have enough
... answers. Of course if we have 10 answers in August I will
do it sooner.
nigel: Do we think we have the complete set now or will there be more?
pal: I'm working with some other folks and continuing to generate more possible implementor names.
tmichel: And we know that Glenn has a client who has asked him to do some IMSC implementation.
action-387?
<trackbot> action-387 -- Pierre-Anthony Lemieux to Collate list of potential implementors of imsc 1. -- due 2015-04-17 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/387
action-387: [meeting 2015-07-02] Some names already provided and contacted, work ongoing on this action.
<trackbot> Notes added to action-387 Collate list of potential implementors of imsc 1..
nigel: I've updated the date on the action for 2 weeks from now, as suggested by pal.
action-396?
<trackbot> action-396 -- David Singer to Produce evidence of request for wide review for webvtt, for the archive -- due 2015-04-17 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/396
tmichel: I've sent an email to
Silvia and David asking them for the status in processing the
comments
... from the W3C groups at list. Silvia reported and sent a
link to the bug tracker. They've resolved
... about 13 comments out of about 30, so it's on its way but
they're not done yet. This triggers
... another question for publishing a new WD including the
resolutions into the spec, highlighting
... them with some CSS markup. I believe David agreed to do
that and then send the responses to
... the commenter.
nigel: Normal way to approach dispositions?
tmichel: No, it's a way to propose the changes in the spec.
nigel: My understanding was a
little different, that all the comments would be added either
as
... resolutions or as "we're working on this" markers in the
spec, and when that's ready to come to
... the WG with a request to publish a new snapshot as a
WD.
tmichel: I think plh wanted to
show some activity on the spec since it's a long time since the
most
... recent WD.
... Where I'm unclear is who is going to request to the
commenter if they're happy or not. I think it
... should be the WG not the CG.
pal: I'm confused by why we're not following the same process as last time.
nigel: I think it's the same process fundamentally but using different tools.
pal: Last time we reviewed every comment prior to republishing.
nigel: I think we still need to
do that, we just haven't got there yet. We definitely need to
review in
... the WG the proposed resolutions as part of the approval for
publishing a new WD.
tmichel: My question is who is going to do the follow-up to check with commenters if they're happy?
nigel: I think that's down to
David. I don't think it matters if the commenter comments on
something
... proposed by the CG or the WG - where it comes from isn't
important, just if the commenter is
... actually happy with it.
tmichel: I agree.
action-396: [Meeting 2015-07-02] Noted that this is ongoing.
<trackbot> Notes added to action-396 Produce evidence of request for wide review for webvtt, for the archive.
tmichel: For coming weeks please could you add to the agenda a review of the TTML2 milestones?
nigel: Okay.
tmichel: I looked with plh and we noted that we had planned to be in CR by now.
nigel: Thanks everyone. I'll adjourn now - meet again same time next week. [Adjourns meeting]