Web Payments Interest Group Face-to-Face Meeting
18 Jun 2015


See also 16 June minutes, 17 June minutes, 18 June minutes, Summary

See also: IRC log


Claudia Swendseid, Ian Jacobs, Karen Myers, Jeff Jaffe, Dave Raggett, Wendy Seltzer, Katie Haritos-Shea, David Ezell (Chair), Manu Sporny, Jörg Heuer, Evan Schwartz, Daniel Schutzer Patrick Adler, Adrian Hope-Bailie, Mountie Lee, Laurent Castillo, Yaso Córdova, Nick Shearer, Evert Fekkes, Dipan Anarkat, Magda Sypula, Leandro Minniti, Erik Anderson, Samuel Weinig, Yean-Yves Rossi, Adam Muntner, David Baron, Mark Tiggas, Stefan Thomas, Kristy Cook, Srikanth Garnepudi, Arjun Jayaram, Arie Levy Cohen, Nick Telford-Reed, Zach Koch, Jean-Yves Rossi, Vish Shastry, James Dailey, Rafael Diaz


<AdrianHB> Changes to draft charter captured in Wiki: https://www.w3.org/Payments/IG/wiki/Roadmap/PaymentArchitectureWG

<evert> scribenick evert

Use Cases Next Steps

<evert> … some people joined us

<evert> … karen myers, w3c,

<evert> … James Dailey gates foundation

<evert> manu: use cases

<evert> … made good progress on use cases

<evert> … now question is what will we do next

<evert> … let people now how use cases will be added

<evert> … alignment with US fed and Gates foundation to be arranged

<evert> … be aware of each other work and goals

<evert> … alibaba biometric use case

<evert> … bio is in for v1

<evert> … afak use cases for v2 and beyond - submit to mailing list in the format as used till now

<evert> manu: how much focus should we set on use cases: should we back off for now?

<evert> … how much time to spend in the calls?

<evert> padler: use cases to be sent to the public list

Boleto Use Case (Brazil)

<evert> leandro: Boleto use case presentation

<evert> leandro minneti: Boleto a payment method from brazil

<evert> leandro: works at CIP, clearing house of Brazil

<evert> … 41 shareholders (all banks), non-profit org

<evert> … Boleto payment method - famous in BRazil

<evert> … Invoicing for b2b and b2c transactions

<evert> … for banked and unbanked people

<evert> … 1.3 bn boletos have been issued last year

<evert> … may be paper or used on web

<evert> … can be used up to due date, after that only at the bank issued the boleto

<evert> … boleto shows on paper the payer, payee and a barcode

<evert> … barcode also has a numeric presentation

<evert> … unbanked customer can use internet access to order something

<evert> … selects Boleto as payment method

<evert> … the Boleto is then generated (paper)

<evert> … boleto than brought to nearest bank to pay it

<evert> … bank credits payees account then

<evert> … and e-commerce goods can be delivered

<evert> …Banked people can directly log in the banking system

<evert> … Merchant will receive amount paid from D+1 t D+n (depending on float of the bank)

<evert> … merchant will bot be deducted by fees duchs as MDR (merchant deduction rate)

<evert> …25% of e-commercie is paid through Boleto

<evert> … on e-Bay, Deal Extreme and AliExpress as well

<evert> Claudia: any details on B2B volume?

<evert> Leandro: details not available now

<evert> Leandro: credit card payments - easy monthly installments

<evert> Q&A on Boleto

<evert> mountie: does merchant receive the funds on the same moment?

<evert> leandro: CIP does clearing and settlement

<evert> mountie: does merchant receive the total amount?

<evert> leandro: yes, the total amount is received

<evert> … bank may charge the consumer a fee such as $1

<evert> Arjun: is boleto used by mobile?

<evert> leandro: mobile app can read the barcode of the boleto

<evert> ian: what does this resemble in other regions?

<Ian> Arjun: Asian bill-paying

<evert> vish: voucher based system do exist, some in europe, other in asia

<evert> … thinks that boleto usage level is falling

<CyrilV> there is a lot in Europe, often basedon a Credit transfer

<CyrilV> France will launch RUBIS 1206 in July, a boleto-like based on 1) electronic request for payment 2) validation by user at mobile or home banking 3) Sepa credit transfert.

Gates Foundation Level One Project Use Cases

<evert> James Dailey - Gates Foundation presentation

<wseltzer> James_Dailey: Here from Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation

<evert> james: here as observer

<evert> … Gates Foundation looks at financial inclusion

<evert> … payments is a way for improving financial inclusion

<evert> … Financial Services For The Poor

<evert> … working with central banks, finance sector

<evert> … in The Level One Project

<evert> … started 1,5 yr ago

<evert> …what if people could pay from phone to phone

<evert> … sign up very rapidly

<evert> … integrate with anyone in the world

<evert> … and cost nearly nothing?

<evert> … as Bill Gates said on SIBOS

<evert> … shows DFS System Reference Model (slide 4)

<evert> … DFS Digital Financial Services

<evert> … models for issuers, acquirers

<evert> … roadmap for architecture

<evert> … rules, rails, accounts, apps

<evert> … use cases

<evert> … make bulk payments to anyone

<evert> … self-issue, figuring out identity issues

<evert> … send money anywhere

<evert> … buy from any merchant in person

<evert> … connect to credit offering services

<evert> www.leveloneproject.org website just launched

<evert> … discussion forum for these issues

<wseltzer> The Level One Project

<evert> … low cost, zero barrier to entry financial system

<evert> Cyril: what is tiered KYC?

<evert> james: under a certain level of transaction, you may have to know less about the consumer

<evert> … could you use the social networks of people?

<evert> … vs government issued credentials

<evert> dan: are you thinking this replaces cash? what is the vision?

<evert> james: vision is partial replacement for cash. mpesa is only doing 3% of trx in Kenya, greater % isrequired to 40%

<evert> padler: broad field of view, what is the most important standards required?

<evert> james: identity is one

<evert> … how to create interface between different payment schemes and providers?

<evert> … interoperate well

<evert> … south africa has modern rails, but other countries are on other standards in the region

<evert> mountie: design principle for immediate fund transfer:

<evert> james: immediate clearing

<evert> … push payments and irrevecobality give some push-back

<evert> … irrevocability raises the bar to send to the right person

<evert> … USSD is widely used still

<evert> … (like SMS)

<evert> … session on server, send information back and forth

<wseltzer> USSD

<evert> … prototype to confirm sending to the right person, and then initiate the push payment

<evert> arjun: how to deal with FX rates?

<evert> james: not interested in international remittance, everything is within a country

<evert> … in Pakisatan huge flows from Karachi into the country

<evert> … cash-in and cash-out to be made digital where possible

<evert> zkoch: mpesa, google initiatives. Not too much success

<evert> …what have you learned making this successful?

<evert> james: world is changing very rapidly, smartphone growing quick

<evert> … MNO market interest growing fast (customer relationship)

<evert> … inter-op is the missing piece. multiple oeprators

<evert> … require connection between at least a number of MNOs

<evert> …mpesa doing wonderful work, also now with merchant services

<evert> … VAS such as credit facilities for merchants

<evert> … goodness with the rails

<evert> dezell: where did you get push back?

<evert> james: from incumbent institutions in transactions today

<evert> … replace 4-party system with irrevokable push based payments

<evert> … is pushed back from incumbents in that markets

<evert> James: getting the next 3 bn people getting access requires a new business model

<evert> vish: is this about new standards?

<evert> james: we put out an argument, a vision and want people to reacht on that as first.

<evert> … working with specific countries to realise pieces of this

<evert> … tip business models a bit

<evert> … on a technical level design how this would look

<evert> … central switch, KYC, take a mesh/distributed approach?

<evert> manu: work to do on use cases, dialogues with FED and on use cases

Adoption and Deployment considerations

<evert> Ian: now 45 minutes to talk about deployment

<evert> … then prepare roundtable preparation to identify questions we like answered

<evert> … then some time for hot topics till lunch

<evert> … and plan further meetings

<evert> … implementation considerations: what is required for success?

<evert> … W3C needs help to predict hurdles to success from the participants in WPIG

<evert> … who have deployed systems: what have you hit at any point in time? Interesting for us.

<evert> … how do you set up an implementation?

<evert> … experimental phase with payments, are people prepared to join?

<evert> … how should roll out plan be designed?

<evert> … Very early discussion, not even a working group

<evert> manu: would be nice to get commitment of organisations during next 6 months to doing implementations

<evert> manu: version 1 should not depend on hardware (sw only)

<evert> … not try to standardize something which does not have an active prototype now

<evert> adrian: apple demo - why not be web? - the api’s look very similar to what we would need in the browser

<evert> ian: w3c requires that two implementations are needed

<evert> … not over-constrain requirements now

<evert> … many WG’s start implementation much sooner than standard

<evert> … WG should begin rightaway to explore possible implementations

<evert> … pushes back a bit on implementations

<evert> jheuer: are we looking for vertical integrated solutions?

<evert> … payment solutions or platform?

<evert> … w3c should be more on the platform

<evert> … what would be outcome of w3c work?

<evert> … so horizontal (platform) of vertical? (payment)

<evert> … need to support an ecosystem

<evert> ian: ecosystem reminds to developer too

<dezell> ian: we need to consider developer buy-in and how to get people invested in the platform

<evert> srikanth: target is doing feew thins, bringing in inter operability

<evert> … develop prototype for standards

<evert> … consolidate standards asap for building prototype

<evert> manu: supporting both native and cloud sounds simple, but is a difficult political questoin

<evert> … outline what would be seen as success in v1

<evert> … eg getting two retailers on board, a certain number of transactions, etc

<evert> Erik: people can combine mobile and pc in one transaction

<evert> … hardware we already have, fido has authentication mechanisms which can be used

<evert> Laurent: sees mostly things we should NOT do

<evert> … now we need to break down the work as being a developer

<evert> … define parts which are a problem now

<evert> mountie: paygate as a small company develops a banking platform in korea. part of banking is ISO related. start ups need standards

<Erik_Anderson> Iterate on what Vish said last night, users place the item in their card on a mobile but do the checkout on the PC. This is due to security concerns about doing the payment via a mobile device. We can use the FIDO U2F for better authentication for v1.

Presentation on Deployment Considerations

<evert> Presentation by Dave Raggett

<evert> dsr: launching a WG, minimal standards

<evert> … recaps on some details

<evert> … not on tech expert, but issues need addressing

<evert> … what happens when WG is launched in the IG?

<evert> dsr: payment request from payee: what data elements, schemes accepted, additional fees, passing proof of payment, idinetify payee to the payment scheme

<evert> … passing public key for the payee

<evert> dsr: selection agent to present choices

<evert> … identifiers for payment schemes can be used to match

<evert> … however not a guarantee to work. human readable names, images for branding: how is this passed, where is it held?

<evert> … payer may want to ser prefs to pay with given instruments

<evert> … seamless experiences across devices

<evert> … or browsers

<evert> … technical: how will agents be implemented?

<evert> … native, web app, local web app, browser expansion, integrated in browser?

<evert> … payment request api must be independent of implementation

<evert> … could replace merchant web page, pass an IFRAME,

<evert> … URIs could provide a way to pass info to agent apps

<evert> … analogy to android intents with browser as abroker and registrar

<evert> … we may not need a multi step dialogue

<evert> dsr: payment instrument

<Ian> [presentation page 5]

<evert> … software and hardware used as client for payment scheme

<evert> …. valuable role for browser

<evert> … w3c strong authentication WG planned for late 2015

<evert> … level of assurance required will depend on payment instrument and value of trx

<evert> …need for standards for conveying details to authentication API

<evert> … this does not address binding web identitiy and real identity

<evert> dsr: beyond V1

<evert> … value added services around payments

<Ian> [slide 7]

<evert> … persuade users to switch over from physical wallets

<evert> … economic trx are much more than just payments

<evert> … examples: expense claims for business travellers, manage monthly expenditure

<evert> … support tax audits

<evert> … avoid need for paper when returning goods

<evert> … fill purchase order screens (shipping and personal details)

<evert> dsr: Receipts

<evert> … part of merchant transactions

<evert> … rich information is required, more than in creditcard statements

<evert> … machine interpretable plus flexibility for presentation

<evert> … may be collected by an agent for the user

<evert> dsr: bigger opportunity

<evert> … purchasing tickets, paying taxi ridepurchasing gift cards, sending flowrs, etc

<evert> dsr: Where Next?

<evert> … WG should get a simple standard out first

<evert> … additional things: broad context of payments

<evert> … push payments, subscriptions, reversals

<evert> … oflline paymetns and p2p

<evert> … brick & mortar, contactless

<evert> … pre-authenticating of payer on entry to store

<evert> … related standards work on a broader scope

<evert> … loyalty, prepaid vouchers, coupons

<evert> … coneecting web-identity to real identity

<evert> …expanded role for web payments IG?

<evert> … new stakehoders, such as tax authorities, loyalty providers

<evert> dsr: hopes this triggers thoughts on how to proceed

<evert> katie: should we do cloud based?

<evert> manu: yes

<evert> padler: regulatory viewpoints? what is UK doing on digital strategy, enabling digital shift? Need proactive guidance from systems

<Dipan> +1 Key to have EU representation in the group.

<evert> jheuer: those who do have wallets now: chat about implementing things

<evert> jheuer: have legal issues in the company on joining working groups and seeks a way to help with the work

<evert> dezell: we are all motivated, but back in the day jobs it will be difficult

<evert> … need energy of others as well

<evert> … VAS work like loyalty may look peripheral but do pay the bill for investments required

<evert> … other VAS is in line with what Gates Foundation wants

<evert> … IG needs to look at complementary standards

<padler> x10 to encouraging others to join us!! :)

<evert> … align as much as we can with standards whcih are useful to us

<evert> … call from the chair to join the weekly meetings and get involved as much as you can

<evert> Erik: api’s should also be there for KYC

<evert> … could all different types of agents be put in the glossary?

<evert> … Fido (eg ubikey) will distribure U2F hardware to people

<dbaron> Or, alternatively, maybe the architecture shouldn't be complicated with all those agents?

<evert> … here for general financial services conducted over the browser

<evert> nicktr: observes a lot of extra use cases root in the consumer side. Attention required for merchant side of things

<vishshastry> +1 on merchant participation

<evert> … people representing merchants are important for the work

<evert> … Tax is so complex, we should defer that to V10 or later

<dezell2_> Also, tax handling can lead to "unintended consequences" in developing areas.

<evert> zkoch: browser to help addressing merchant painpoints such as increasing conversion

<CyrilV> Krysty q+

<evert> nicks: apple here to cooperate as a browser vendor (webkit)

<evert> kristy: merchant participation: ton of efforts all over. Working on ti, but a struggle. Most merchant apps are native (rather than cloud based)

<evert> … that may complicate matters

<evert> … may different levels of involvement

<evert> katie: cloud based wallet can still be offered to merchant, should not be worried about that. must be brandable

<evert> dan: cloud based would need a connection in a store. does it work when offline?

<evert> srikanth: MCX and currentc use cloud based approach too

<evert> … multiple wallets - apple, mcx, etc

<evert> … interoperable in stores is very important

<evert> dbaron: not sure on what wallets mean from a browser perspective

<evert> … needs to understand better what is going on there

<nick> +1 on that point

<evert> ian: charter describes communication channels

<evert> laurent: browser part is implementation choice

<evert> … we have to be open on different implementations

<padler> +1 to Laurent's comment...

<evert> … different secure elements too

<evert> … it is not about the browser but about the web

<padler> the important point is that the "wallet" may be decoupled from the "shopping interface"... regardless of where either "lives"

<evert> … still too soon to make implementation choices

<evert> ian: main portion of the meeting now finished

<nicktr> Ian: Evan has implemented a prototype based on the revised charter

<wseltzer> [break]

Roundtable preparation

<Karen> Scribe: Karen

Ian: Coming to this afternoon, we have guests from about 20 companies [reads off]

…with those people in mind, what is that we want...

…and welcome Rafael from GSMA

…How to prioritize work and fill in gaps

DanS: I think you should ask same questions you ask of us

…we have browser vendors here, so ask them what they would like to see

IJ: That is a good broad question, anything more specific?

DanS: interoperability and security

IJ: topics to hit on are interoperability and security

Adrian: On the break we had an interesting conversation

…around the web context and security and the tools available to banks and financial institutions

…you are limited by what browser gives you

…Is it important for browser to vastly improve

…or should browser hand that off to something else

…either browser is capable of giving a better tool kit, or better at handing off in a more interoperable way

IJ: I was going to say for WebKit, Firefox and Chrome folks in room, what you would like to hear

…that would help you say, 'that's good to hear; we were wondering about browser next steps'

…you may already know these things from your relationships

Katie: for them to encourage

…only appears to have one gov't agency

IJ: We have US Fed

Claudia: We're not a gov't agency

…but an important infrastructure

Kate: We want to encourage agencies involved in the development of this

…so they don't say 'no'

…important that they are at the table and a part of this

…have to work in concert

…and understand what their pain points are and what to look at

Magda: Which gov't agencies and countries

Katie: finance, merchants, consumer protections; those organizations [globally]

Claudia: I think there are certain groups

…gov't orgs, merchants, etc.

…who will not be willing to participate at this level

…it's too small of what they have to do day in and day out

…we should find other models

…for their review

<jheuer> Qeue is already closed, so here are my fivepence: ask for the major pain points and drivers (naturally). Beyond this: what are the expectation wrt/ openness and non-discrimination?

…Other standards organizations I work with have developed mechanisms for input

Kiate; I agree, but it might be possible in some cases

…agencies are newer tech agencies

…not make it an expectation

IJ: For external review task force; should they develop that as a plan for how to do that

Katie: Back in your lap!

Claudia: Task force in action

<scribe> ACTION: Claudia to organize task force discussion to solicit discussions from stakeholders such as regulators [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/06/18-wpay-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-114 - Organize task force discussion to solicit discussions from stakeholders such as regulators [on Claudia Swendseid - due 2015-06-25].

Joerg: Everyone wants to hear what the pain points are and what the drivers should be

<mountie> Basel Committee can be one of stakeholders

…when talking with political guys and industries that see they are going to have process changes

…how far what we do here is neutral

…and how much is going to be non-discrimination

…what are their fears, and how can we give them confidence that this [non-discrimination] won't take place

IJ: I don't know what that means

Joerg: Banks say we want to issue the wallets

…users say if I am a customer of that bank, but I do have a credit card and that does not fit into the solution so that is not good

…while other orgs come and say we want a non-discriminating platform for access for postal services

…only the big incumbant could install boxes

…now there is an attempt to come up with regulation

…on basis of this solution, they are considering digital keys

…one of those things that says it needs to be non-discriminating

DavidE: I have been hearing, we have not talked too much about regulation

…we may get some worries that we have not thought of

…what are their current challenges; how do we make that better or worse

…and are we going with the right standards

IJ: they may not have enough info to answer that

…and frame as web questions

…rather than broad question of what regulatory pains...

David: opposite, from what you know about web, what regulatory challenges do you see

<Zakim> manu`, you wanted to ask about how can we help them convince their organizations to participate.

<stefan_thomas> Also: What are their questions for us? They are trying to modernize regulatory frameworks, so I think the web perspective is unique and relevant in that respect.

Manu: I have heard conversations that large financial institutions find it hard to join an organization and work like this

…Arie has a list of objections

…so question is how can we get you involved in some way

IJ: I don't want them to feel trapped

Manu: say it some other way

IJ: maybe there is a way

…seems premature to ask that question to invite them to get involved

…I'm still interested in the pain points

…it's the first time we are seeing them

…note sure how to modulate; participation should be the story

<dezell2> "How can we make sure that you feel enfranchised in this effort."

…not sure we can say that exact question

Manu: yes

Erik: on the regulatory side, I have had discussions with Jennifer @ from @

…and consumer protections...

…they won't get involved until there is something to regulate

…if we give them a tool set, then they may get involved

…reduce the work they need to do

…but you have to do it in way that tool set allows them to do their job

…they are in agreement, but need some reason

Katie: not limited to regulators

Erik: yes, consumer protection as well

…they do come to talk to me

Arie: I was going to echo both of the comments

<Zakim> evert, you wanted to say that financial industry players do need open “tools”

…We discussed a more blended group of participants would help create a more ubiquitous deployment of W3C standards that is not lop-sided by retail

…I made efforts with Karen to invite people to attend today's roundtable

…shared sentiments…whom to assign, allocation of person's time, interest in implementing standards, cost to participate is a hurdle

…I have only spoken to financial institutions…some initial feedback

…how to overcome those resistances may be focus of a small group's efforts

…before going out to market you consider those objections and have answers to those objections

…I am happy to help and to participate in that group

IJ: thank you, and we'll continue to work with you

Erik: and the patents; they want to hold onto them

DanS: I don't know how technical they are, but they have all seen mobile take off and take control

…we saw Apple's capabilities yesterday

…could be important to relate mobile and web to them

IJ: Jeff has some of that in his presentation

…is there a question in there for them?

DanS: I think they know what you are about, but how does it relate to what they are trying to accomplish

…underlying foundation and why

…excellent suggestion, we know that they don't have the time and bandwidth to participate, so what is best way to keep apprised of best way

…without being fully engaged

IJ: Voice a word of caution

…we do have merchants and banks in the room here

<dezell3> please see my suggestion for wording - keeping them "enfranchised"

…we have to work through some of these challenges, so let's not put them at arm's distance, but good stuff about how to get them to join us

Katie; we know anti-discrimination as anti-trust, so that is an important comment

Joerg: different dimension

…not 100 percent the same thing

…we work in field of certain monopolistic nature is natural

…we are asked to be non-discriminating

…if we have a partnership with YouTube

…then we should open same option to any other service as well

<Zakim> padler, you wanted to talk about large payer perspectives to encourage adoption...

IJ: we are non-discriminatory in that all these banks should be W3C members

Pat: about comment of paying workers in the field

…US Treasury is the largest payer

…if you encourage payer perspective, that could be interesting dynamic to add

…both payer and payee side

Katie: don't make assumptions

IJ: Interesting comment on payroll

Pat: If people can receive payments using the standards that is a huge uptake

IJ: US Treasury is not expected to be here

…but good question is to ask who else should be in the room

Pat: Companies are using standard web tech to do B2B and B2C

…if you really want adoption, get to the wallets

Cyril: From my POV, we have seen that it's not easy to make use cases and to implement them

…important to articulate existing systems

…Visa around table

…we have seen Apple work

…in Europe we have put a lot of money in transfer payment systems and ISO 20022

…what we have done here is not exactly compliant

…we know the details will be a nightmare and difficult to sell

…At Rabobank, I don't feel that alone

…what we do may not be compliant, so normalization is important

…people who do normalization; ISO 20022 or other bodies

…and maybe some regulators

…it will be important

Katie: SWIFT will be here?

Cyril: yes

…biggest system we have

…one day we have to connect them

…there is always structure of data, developers can do that, but sometimes special results

Taylor: yes, echo Arie's comment to engage financial institutions

<Zakim> jeff, you wanted to suggest that the conversation should be less about regulation and more about the web.

Jeff: Some comments about financial institution participation or regulation

…I will mention in my slides

…but not real focus of today's discussion

…nothing we can do or fix for regulations

…not necessarily the dialogue we want

…On membership, it will just put too much pressure on them and on the meeting

…I think this needs to be positioned as, here is the web community, multi-stakeholder

…and we want to have a dialogue and this gives you a unique opportunity to talk to constituent elements

…and we have five panelists

…I'm not opposed to recruiting

…but it's important that we ask every speaker to state their name and company names clearly

…and we can identify those who have most plausible interaction and follow up during cocktails

IJ: As moderator, I expect to reach out

…to people who are not part of the discussion

…so please feel free to speak

Jeff: If a question is not best for someone on panel, should ask those who are here today

Evert: In European arena, strong converging regulation

…the reason Rabobank joins this work

…is that we need proper tools to operate our business in this market

…to get to mobile payments…trying to get reliable tools to our customers is what worries me

IJ: Thank you for that impact

…Evan, do you want to come up now?

<Zakim> jeff, you wanted to riff on "what is a wallet"

<Ian> IJ: Ah, you have an indirection on how to read the rest

<stefan_thomas> @manu

<nicktr> The schema beneath Evan's excellent demo appears ultimately to be coming from this very interesting initiative: http://www.heppnetz.de/projects/goodrelations/

<nicktr> I've not seen this before but it does look like an excellent starting point for a discussion

<Zakim> manu`, you wanted to say we will need a basic set of fields.

<Ian> scribenick: Ian

<Karen> Manu: I really appreciate the amount of focus that the payment request has, that is great

manu: I appreciate the amount of focus in the payment request

<scribe> scribenick: Karen

…having used JSON LD to do things experimentally, we are not going to get away with that

…When it comes to charter and vocab documents, we may need to define far more than this

…would be great if we can get away with this

Katie: explore more schemas?

Manu: We have a good relationship with Schema.org

…and JSON-LD was designed for payments

Evan: personal perspective is not to limit scope of charter, but add to what this might look like

<scribe> scribe: Manu

<Erik_Anderson> https://www.w3.org/Payments/IG/wiki/Payments_Initiation

<Zakim> Ian, you wanted to ask if this is a charter refinement

<dbaron> Perhaps I should have been clearer about the ways in which I'm not happy with the charter

<Zakim> dezell, you wanted to recommend External Reviews TF to investigate how to represent ISO20022 in schema.org

<Zakim> jeff, you wanted to explain why the "kitchen sink" charter has challenges

<screen> [lunch]


<screen> ... Review progress against goals, we did pretty well.

<screen> ... Prioritize use cases

<screen> ... Reviewed draft charter

<screen> Ian: 3 areas we looked at principally

<screen> ... Most progress on payment architecture

<screen> ... Timetable: IG consensus, W3C management support, propose to membership in August

<screen> ... Group to form in Sept., meet at TPAC in October.

<screen> ... 2d. Authentication. Wendy presented 2 proposed charters. we'll see more

<screen> ... 3d. Credentials. There's more work to do.

<screen> ... Security? main next thing will be around authentication.

<screen> ... We still have security work to do in sending requirements to those other groups

<screen> dezell: Thanks to W3C staff

<screen> ... next activities for the IG.

<screen> ... Started thinking about what life in the IG will look like after launch of a new WG.

<screen> ... DSR gave us some points to ponder.

<screen> ... Finally, this roundtable.

<screen> Ian: Jeff will open with a brief presentation.

<screen> ... followed by rich discussion.

<screen> ... then drinks with Ripple at Le Cirque

<screen> dezell: Our next face-to-face meeting is TPAC in Sapporo, Japan. Registration is open now.

<screen> ... AC willing, we'll have a WG chartered too.

<screen> ... Following F2F?

<screen> Ian: For f2fs, it helps to find a host

<screen> Claudia: The Fed would host

<screen> Adrian: Ripple Labs could host in South Africa

<screen> Magda: We should go back to our respective orgs

<screen> Ian: Are there any European orgs who'd like to host?

<screen> Juan Jiménez Zaballos: Spain?

<screen> Ian: We'll decide asynchronously

<screen> dezell: Thanks to our host, Bloomberg.

<screen> [applause]

<screen> ... thanks to Erik and the Bloomberg staff.

<screen> Next all-IG teleconf: 29 June (no meeting 22 June)

<screen> Ian: I'll clean up the minutes, create a summary.

<Magda> *yay Ian*

<screen> Magda: What's next with settlement?

<screen> Ian: Evan launched settlement TF at Feb F2F

<screen> ... that discussion continues.

<screen> Stefan: We're not trying to start a WG just yet. Working in CG

<screen> Erik: I'll be talking to Ripple more.

<screen> dezell: Thanks W3C

<screen> ... Thanks to everyone who shared presentations, talked, shared ideas.

<screen> [adjourned to further conversation]

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: Claudia to organize task force discussion to solicit discussions from stakeholders such as regulators [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/06/18-wpay-minutes.html#action01]
[End of minutes]

Minutes formatted by David Booth's scribe.perl version 1.140 (CVS log)
$Date: 2015/06/29 15:41:27 $