See also: IRC log
<trackbot> Date: 19 May 2015
<clown> agenda: this
<clown> agneda+ ISSUE-635: (Joseph) AAPI mappings for role rowgroup.
<richardschwerdtfeger> found it
<clown> rich: http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?iso=20150519T15&p1=250&ah=1
<scribe> scribe: joanie
<clown> action-1533?
<trackbot> action-1533 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Investigate and possibly create a minimal/skeleton javascript at-spi2 listener with the aim of automating the 1.1 tests. -- due 2015-06-02 -- OPEN
<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1533
<clown> scribenick:
<clown> scribenick: clown
JD: I postponed and updated the
action to the beginning of June.
... I came up with a quick-and-dirty pyatspi script, it does
the job.
... In Selenium.
... I can attempt to port it to JavaScript.
... I put a note about this in the action.
... It does a tree dive to get the element ID.
... I suspect all the platforms expose that.
... The tree dive is on the a11y tree.
RS: Can we see the code?
JS: How about a pastebin?
<discussion of the code>
RS: Does it do the API mapping test?
JD: Look at the assertion at line 93, 94, 95.
JS: It is using the pyatspi library to get info straight out of AT-SPI
JD: Each language would have to
implement things like getName(), getDescription(), and so
on.
... For example, one could do something similar for IA2.
CS: That's what my dev was doing. It wasn't that hard.
RS: It would be good if the ERT group to do this.
JD: I put this in WebDriver as a proof of concept.
action-1533?
<trackbot> action-1533 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Investigate and possibly create a minimal/skeleton javascript at-spi2 listener with the aim of automating the 1.1 tests. -- due 2015-06-02 -- OPEN
<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1533
CS: My goal was to somehow get these concepts into webdriver.
RS: I'm not sure there are enough
resources in the webdriver group.
... Although, I don't really care how it gets done. Let
whomever can do it, go ahead.
CS: I need to talk to someone
about how to contribute.
... But, this kind of a11y testing is just testing.
RS: Eventually, I would like a cross platform API for all of this.
JD: I just wanted to mention that
we don't need a test harness as W3C already has that.
... We just need some glue code.
<joanie> scribe: joanie
RS: We have to write the test
cases.
... Jon has coding skills and students who could work on
this.
... But if ERT could work on automating our tests, let them go
do it.
... And when they have issues, they could report them to
us.
... I would rather us not have to stop, create all the tests,
we don't want to do manual testing, etc.
... Why not leverage these folks and then contribute the result
to WebDriver.
CS: Maybe. But the code is pretty
small.
... The harness code is easy.
... Translating the test cases into the syntax is easy, but
time consuming.
... Do we need ERT for that?
... The other piece is commands for accessibility APIs. That's
a bit more work.
... What Joanie just did and what my dev did, and some students
writing test cases, is what I think we should do.
RS: We potentially could do that, but some group needs to do the work.
CS: Jon's students did IE
testing.
... And I want to keep the number of groups small.
RS: I wrote a draft charter for this group. Their job would be to create the automated testing and unified accessibility API testing.
CS: I don't know if we need a group to do this.
RS: I've been told WebDriver isn't far off the ground.
CS: Do we expect to start these tests next week?
RS: No. Probably August should be fine.
CS: I was looking at doing this
late in the summer.
... Someone needs to port the existing ARIA tests and port
them. Also create new tests for 1.1.
... It's a lot of typing, but not that hard.
... The 1.0 ARIA files already existed. So it's just the
additional features and any changes in 1.1.
... The bulk of the work is porting.
<clown> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/products/25
CS: It sounds like a have a
practical way forward. I'll look at the Microsoft work going
into WebDriver.
... Joanie can look at IA2 and ATSPI2
JS: The URL above is the ARIA 1.1
test plan.
... So is this an issue?
<clown> issue: Automated testing using WebDriver for ARIA 1.1
<trackbot> Created ISSUE-710 - Automated testing using webdriver for aria 1.1. Please complete additional details at <https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/710/edit>.
<clown> issue-710?
<trackbot> issue-710 -- Automated testing using WebDr8ver for ARIA 1.1 -- open
<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/710
<clown> issue-710?
<trackbot> issue-710 -- Automated testing using WebDriver for ARIA 1.1 -- open
<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/710
<clown> ACTION: Joanie hooked up ATK/AT-SPI to webDriver [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/05/19-aapi-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-1637 - Hooked up atk/at-spi to webdriver [on Joanmarie Diggs - due 2015-05-26].
<clown> action-1637?
<trackbot> action-1637 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Hooked up atk/at-spi to webdriver -- due 2015-05-26 -- OPEN
<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1637
<clown> ACTION: Cynthia to take the concept of a11y testiing in WebDriver to the WebDriver group. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/05/19-aapi-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-1638 - Take the concept of a11y testiing in webdriver to the webdriver group. [on Cynthia Shelly - due 2015-05-26].
<clown> action-1638?
<trackbot> action-1638 -- Cynthia Shelly to Take the concept of a11y testiing in webdriver to the webdriver group. -- due 2015-05-26 -- OPEN
<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1638
<clown> ACTION: Cynthia to implement WebDriver a11y testing for UIA [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/05/19-aapi-minutes.html#action03]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-1639 - Implement webdriver a11y testing for uia [on Cynthia Shelly - due 2015-05-26].
<clown> action-1639?
<trackbot> action-1639 -- Cynthia Shelly to Implement webdriver a11y testing for uia -- due 2015-05-26 -- OPEN
<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1639
<clown> trackbot, associate action-1639 with issue-710
<trackbot> action-1639 (Implement webdriver a11y testing for uia) associated with issue-710.
<clown> ACTION: Rich to send a note to James Craig about test automation with WebDriver [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/05/19-aapi-minutes.html#action04]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-1640 - Send a note to james craig about test automation with webdriver [on Richard Schwerdtfeger - due 2015-05-26].
<clown> action-1640?
<trackbot> action-1640 -- Richard Schwerdtfeger to Send a note to james craig about test automation with webdriver -- due 2015-05-26 -- OPEN
<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1640
<clown> action-1640?
<trackbot> action-1640 -- Richard Schwerdtfeger to Send a note to James Craig about test automation with WebDriver -- due 2015-05-26 -- OPEN
<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1640
<clown> action-1621?
<trackbot> action-1621 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Ask Cynthia if UIA Express will be abandoned, and do we want to keep the UIA Express column in the mapping spec. -- due 2015-05-19 -- OPEN
<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1621
CS: The new browser Edge is for
UIA; not UIA Express.
... IE 11 will continue to ship for the foreseeable future as a
backwards-compatibility browser and will still be UIA
Express.
RS: So ARIA 1.1 might not be available in IE 11.
CS: IE 11 will remain the way it is now.
RS: Content injection using CSS,
typically the only way you can get at that is via an API
mapping.
... So ATs will be accessing content via the DOM.
... So we have a non-interoperable situation, some is only
available via APIs and other only available via the DOM.
CS: Only on that platform, but yes.
RS: And we don't know when everyone will migrate to Edge.
CS: If they upgrade to Windows 10, they'll have both IE and Edge.
<clown> proposed resolution - Leave the UIA Express mappings in the Core-AAM as they are for ARIA 1.1.
CS: I think that makes sense, but
there may be places where what's in the document doesn't align
with what has been implemented in IE.
... But the column will stay there.
<clown> resolution: Leave the UIA Express mappings in the Core-AAM as they are for ARIA 1.1, with potential bug fixes.
<clown> RESOLVED: Leave the UIA Express mappings in the Core-AAM as they are for ARIA 1.1, with potential bug fixes.
RESOLUTION: Leave the UIA Express mappings in the Core-AAM as they are for ARIA 1.1, with potential bug fixes.
<clown> trackbot, close action-1621
<trackbot> Closed action-1621.
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.140 of Date: 2014-11-06 18:16:30 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/a11 tree/a11y tree/ Succeeded: s/both/both IE and Edge/ Succeeded: s/RESOLUTION:/RESOLVED:/ Found Scribe: joanie Inferring ScribeNick: joanie Found ScribeNick: Found ScribeNick: clown Found Scribe: joanie Inferring ScribeNick: joanie ScribeNicks: joanie, , clown Present: Joseph_Scheuhammer Joanmarie_Diggs Bryan_Garaventa Rich_Schwerdtfeger Cynthia_Shelly Found Date: 19 May 2015 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2015/05/19-aapi-minutes.html People with action items: at-spi atk cynthia hooked joanie rich up WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines. You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option.[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]