See also: IRC log
<trackbot> Date: 16 April 2015
<allanj> scribe: allanj
<jeanne> http://www.w3.org/WAI/AU/CR20/WCAG2_HTML_Problem_File_Fixed.html
split results
in fireworks
text only zoom resulted in 2/4 checkbox did not get bigger, and 2/4 did get bigger
<jeanne> when testing whether a plain HTML checkbox enlarges when the text size enlarges, 2 people had it work, 2 did not have it work. All are running FF 37.01 and all on Windows 7.
but standard zoom, checkbox all got bigger
<jeanne> All had Zoom Text Only turned off
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2015AprJun/0016.html
shawn: 1.4.3 and 1.4.6 are *global*. Most of the use of borders especially and also margins that I've seen has been needed at the *element* level."
RESOLUTION: add Border and Margins control to 1.4.2
close item 1
take up item 2
<Greg> A bit odd to have borders be AA per-element but AAA globally (because it's considered "Advanced").
gl: border by elements should be a AAA
<Greg> Margins definitely AA or better; but for Borders I have trouble coming up with justifications for significant accessibility impact. Perhaps it might be used to highlight headings and the like.
<Greg> However, I won't object to making Borders AA.
RESOLUTION: move borders from 1.4.6 to 1.4.2
<Greg> https://w3c.github.io/UAAG-Implementations/Implementations-by-feature
1.1.2 - can do this with USER STYLE sheet
greg has a stylesheet
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9K4WJs94FfY youtube with captions CC button is not grayed out
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oe30habM0ls youtube with no captions no CC button
1.1.3 - settings for images in browsers -
https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/981640
http://smallbusiness.chron.com/turn-off-images-internet-explorer-49962.html
1.1.4
<scribe> done
1.1.5
<scribe> done
1.1.6
<scribe> done
discussion of list of alternative content type that the UA processes
gl: in 1.1.5 chrome can turn off
images but not have alt, could use CSS to display alt
... put yes/no/maybe at the top of each box in implementation
columns
... so we know when something is really done
1.1.7
need to find
at risk
1.2.1
ja: not sure how to test this
<jeanne> Judy: We're getting a level of feedback that we've never gotten before, some of which is good to see. So pretty much everything in the charter package is being looked at with fresh eyes.
<jeanne> ... sometimes it is a matter of perspective or misconceptions
<jeanne> scribe: jeanne
jb: the browsers say that there
isn't the engagement in UAWG because the browsers aren't
here.
... maybe the question should be "why aren't the browsers
here?"
... we continue to hear from PwD that there are basic
accessibility problems with browsers that are not being
addressed.
... UAWG is not funded by W3C, there is an expectation it would
be published as a REC
... I want to explore the possibility that IF we could get
permission to recharter as a Note, what does UAWG see as
options?
... What would it look like to recharter for Note track, if
that were an option, and how long would it take to get that
charter done?
Jim: We could probably do it in a couple weeks
Greg: I totally respect the
judgement and opinions of the people in this working group.
They are smart, dedicated people who have been doing this work
for a long time. That said, from my perspective personally, I
really like the idea of guidance documents that would be more
useful to developers than a standards document
... I will also be very sad if the group doesn't produce a
standard. If standards are enforced in purchasing decisions,
that is the only thing that gets real changes to happen. It
won't drive the industry forward.
... but on the other hand, a number of our SC don't have
implementations
<allanj> +1 to many SC being at risk if REC track
Judy: There a lot of complicated
truths in what Greg said.
... What if it were not either/or, is there a value in looking
at what can go into REC track and what will not.
<allanj> UI that UAAG20 talks about is what to do for users, NOT how to do something
<allanj> ... to get an accessible environment
Jim: The UI that we have in the Guidelines is what functions they need to provide to users, not HOW they have to do it. We were very careful not to include HOW.
Greg: Has anyone given any specfic examples of where we are telling them how to change their UI?
Judy: The current discussion doesn't seem to be looking at the detail of the spec in great depth
Greg: They may not have any substantial actual objections?
Judy: My understanding is that
the browsers have objections such as: the approach is outdated,
the industry is moving toward apps, etc.
... there are comments from a few browsers that have been
looking at UAAG in depth.
... one browser said there would be more concerns if UAAG were
published as a normative.
... I'm not sure how to get us a clearer answer, except to have
a series of discussions.
Jim: Even if we do all these things, we still have a year to finish
Judy: Jan said that the group is self-censoring the spec, because they are afraid it will be shot down if it is on REC track.
s/ Judy: Jan said that the group is self-censoring the spec, because they are afraid it will be shot down if it is on REC track. //
Judy: I hear a mix of advantages and disadvantages, rather than a clear consensus on a Note
Jan: This document has everything
including the kitchen sink. To send it as REC, we would have to
take more out because we don't have implementations, or it is
not testable.
... We could do a small set that has implementations and
publish that as a REC.
Jim: that's a really low bar.
Jan: We take the best. That brings up the lowest browser.
<allanj> js: might help mobile browsers
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.140 of Date: 2014-11-06 18:16:30 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/border and margins by/border by/ Succeeded: s/no sure/not sure/ Succeeded: s/topic: UAAG// Succeeded: s/Pretty much everything/We're getting a level of feedback that we've never gotten before, some of which is good to see. So pretty much everything/ Succeeded: s/as a Note/for Note track, if that were an option/ FAILED: s/ Judy: Jan said that the group is self-censoring the spec, because they are afraid it will be shot down if it is on REC track. // Found Scribe: allanj Inferring ScribeNick: allanj Found Scribe: jeanne Inferring ScribeNick: jeanne Scribes: allanj, jeanne ScribeNicks: allanj, jeanne Default Present: Jeanne, Greg_Lowney, Jan, Jim_Allan, Judy Present: Jeanne Greg_Lowney Jan Jim_Allan Judy Regrets: Kim Found Date: 16 Apr 2015 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2015/04/16-ua-minutes.html People with action items:[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]