See also: IRC log
<trackbot> Date: 01 April 2015
<Ryladog> scribe: Ryladog
<scribe> Meeting: IndieUI Working Group Teleconference
<scribe> Chair: Janina
<kurosawa> mute me
JW: IMS Global is interested in User Context doc
JS: Is now the co-editor of the Context Spec
js: Thanks for completing the survey
<jcraig> survey results URL?
JS: No one wants up to drop the work. Majority wants to work with Web Apps and CSS. PF is going to be called APA
<andy> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/54997/201503_planning/results
JS: Accessible Platform
Architectures = APA
... There was no opposition to the new name
JW: My pariority is to see the
work carries forward as effectively as possible - with
accessibility SME overseeing and working with those groups with
clear expectations and deliverable
... We need more commitment at the outset if things move to
other groups
JC: Whicha spects?
JW: The same issues. Who is going
to implement and how. And then who. Thos e in A11Y have the
expertise understand the work.
... Who need to be involved and how to make a process work -
and find the W3C framework that will best acheive that
JC: One word of warning. It is
going o be more and more difficult to get implementers involved
in speccing vaporware
... If we develop a bunch of web API prior to nay platform
support for them, it sideline the practically. We need to fight
against spec bload
... No technology creep
<Zakim> MichaelC, you wanted to say joint TF model should address that, and PF can focus on requirements documentation
JC: Aspects could be covered without requiring the....?
JS: Others?
MC: I think the ides of joing
task forces suggested on the survey - that should address James
concern.
... APA is focusing on requirement documentation and rely on
the spec group to implement that - it will work
JC: My concern is that most of
the big groups have trouble editing them selves. ARIA is
starting to get bloat in 1.1.
... It is a concern to me is that we try to focus on too much
and we dont ever ship a version 1 becasue it never completes
enough
AH: I support that. I wasnt able
to complete the survey.
... I am not sure we need to include the GPII - but I am for
the Schema.org
... Browsers are implementing Schema.org and work with
that
... I think we have to get something workable on the ground
<Zakim> MichaelC, you wanted to talk about IP (after Andy) and to say self control is possible; but we still need a forum
MC: Respond to IP. I do not think
there are not any memebrs of INdieUI who are not part of
PF
... I d not think there are any issues with the User Context
moving to the spec part of PF/APA
JC: Thre was a lot of reprtition
from companies on the WAI charters
... We want to be inclusive - but we also want to be
productive
JW: I think what MC sad is right.
There is a spec side of PF - whether that she be seperated from
the review side - may be woke d out
... I am not sure why ARIA should end up in by non
accessibility groups - and it has to be addressed very
carefully
... It could be an effective method moving forward. I want very
strong relationship. Otherwise we will end up with the same
people talking to eaach other and notthe implementors
JS: Events only - with WebApps -I
have spoken with one o the chairs - that was very encouraging
in them wanting ti take up the work with us in APA. And they
want to kikstart
... I am highly encouraged by that
<MichaelC> WAPA: Web Accessibility Properties and Actions
JS: Another wrinkle - the prposal from MicroSoft that i an activity that would be about events and events management. What is your view about that proposal James?
<MichaelC> https://rawgit.com/cyns/wapa/master/wapa.html
JS: If you havnt looked at that
please do
... We started working on events - folks got interested - the
editing task force is looking at this use of ARIA in events.
And I am unsure if this is jsut for accessibility or not
JC: It looks like it os specific to ARIA
JS: To work with AAPIs or mainstream?
JC: I would be against an "ARIA
Request Event" for something unreleated to accessibility. This
specific to ARIA request events.
... In contrast, IndieUI Events were planned to work with
native markup but also custom ARIA widgets.
... I woudl want to limit this to ARIA
JS: We have to look at it and
factor tht in
... We want a proposal that we could all live with
JW: Microsoft is proposing this
work for WebApps
... That seems useful
;;
JS: User Context: it keeps getting shoved to the side. We have not reached out to CSS to see about their interested on working on User Context with us
JC: The work ha already been
working done as media features are already being implemented in
CSS4
... It is not that CSS is going to take up User Contect - itt
is that they are taking up feature that were in IndieUI will eb
implemented - some specific to seciryt
JS: It seesm that there are a number of features that they were not interetsed in taking up
JC: Given how this has happend in
the last couplde of years - I suggest that we do not include
things that are already in CSS and we get the securoty model in
- and the things that dont firt will come in a future
vrsion
... Specific example: whether are not your font size is
enlarged Is that good to have in media feature?
... Might be better for a v2
... Perferred caption BG color - which is well with in CSS
JS: Timeline I think is at odds
with the urgency with what Jason and Andy said
... It appeasr that it will take CSS longer to get to it
... If we get somethings done - it might becaome more
attractive to CSS
JW: It doesnt seem to me as
ammenable to a relationship with APA.
... Folks have different priorities - it doesnt seem like it
may fit with in a joint-task force. Mayb something looser
AH: User COntext exists as it is - and can be used all over the place - might be implemented in different technlologies in different places
JW: We could set out a range of
usable user preferences and that feature is provided for in an
API and how they all get covered overtime
... not necessarrily a normative document....if that is what
you are thinking
AH: Implementations have two
implementations
... That is worth for a less formal document
JC: the media features that are referencable are referenced from the current User Context draft
AH: I tthink that is fine. One groupf not implmenting one of our fetaires - we just need to go out and find someone who will get implemented
JS: You actually have to work with vendor to get implementations
JC: We dont want what happened in
ARIA - mdragdrop was added just haphazardly at the end
... Because it was speced and finalized before was there any
real work done - but it not effective. I do not want to waste
resources if there is not a way for a user to turn them on
AH: I am not arguing for holding up. One example: smalled interfaces?
JC: I current spec id tied to JS
and CSS APIs
... The IoT that upport web technologies
JS: Alot of them do support web technologies - it goes to a company website.
AH: A lot of these things are no necessary implementable on web devices
JS: We can develope reqirements and user cases and notes if we are not going to craete specs
AH: My point was that those devices do not have OS like othet things
JS: Ther is not time to get
another heartbeat out
... Well take that up when Jason gets back
AH: I'd rather have Rich here for this....
<jcraig> JC: Still not sure what this discussion has to do with IndieUI. The IoT devices you're referring to (thermostats, etc) have custom APIs controlled by the manufacturer; your control of that through a website is entirely unrelated to these custom APIs. Where they may overlap is controlled by each manufacturer.
JS: Jason may be unable to spend of all that time as he is fixing up his new house
<andy> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1pb92piOlud5sXQadXYnbmtp9LCut26gv8ku-qqZTwec/edit#gid=0
AH: The only chnage is we started to map in the security model - whether it is relvant to a particlar context oe not
JS: We are talking about a heartbeat. Can we make a best guess as to what will survive th edebate
JW: I think that is feasible
JC: User- is a variable not a
media juery
... These are currently not thongs that can be used with a CSS
propoerty. REmove the prefox user-
... Full keyboard access would be @media keyboard access - but
you cnnot set that as a property
... if you remove all instances of
<MichaelC> scribe: MichaelC
JW: would like concrete proposals for how joint TFs would look
JS: will bring forward as soon as we have some clarity
JW: seems WebApps is pretty clear
<jcraig> s/You can use all the stuff after that/if you remove all instances of "user-" we can debate the rest. the user- prefix referred to a CSS property value (variable), not a media feature as written here. e.g. font-size: user-font-size;
User Context less so
<jcraig> The syntax is also TDB. Might be font-size: user-pref(font-size);
<jcraig> For example, the one listed here as user-no-MotionSimulation was proposed to CSS as "prefers-reduced-motion"; we've determined its rare that a user ever wants "no" motion; but there are certain types of motions (zooms, parallax) that should be reduced or changes (crossfade, flat pan, etc) in order to prevent vestibular issues.
<jcraig> "no sound hazard" doesn't seem to make sense as a warning. if there is a hazard, the user should have audio off or down on their device thereby preventing a webpage from being able to present them with a hazard...
<jcraig> but it could work as a media feature, e.g. @media (audio: none) { /* flash screen if either sound volume is down or if user is deaf */ }
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.140 of Date: 2014-11-06 18:16:30 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/AWK/js/ Succeeded: s/PA/APA/ Succeeded: s/against that if it was beyond accessibility. /against an "ARIA Request Event" for something unreleated to accessibility. / Succeeded: s/It could work with native HTML button but also ARIA. Theirs is specific to ARIA controls only/In contrast, IndieUI Events were planned to work with native markup but also custom ARIA widgets./ Succeeded: s/You can use all the stuff after that/if you remove all instances of/ FAILED: s/You can use all the stuff after that/if you remove all instances of "user-" we can debate the rest. the user- prefix referred to a CSS property value (variable), not a media feature as written here. e.g. font-size: user-font-size;/ Succeeded: s/clar/clear/ Succeeded: s/Scribe: Katie Haritos-Shea/scribe: Ryladog/ Succeeded: s/Zikim, ??P8 is me// Found embedded ScribeOptions: -final *** RESTARTING DUE TO EMBEDDED OPTIONS *** FAILED: s/You can use all the stuff after that/if you remove all instances of "user-" we can debate the rest. the user- prefix referred to a CSS property value (variable), not a media feature as written here. e.g. font-size: user-font-size;/ Found Scribe: Ryladog Inferring ScribeNick: Ryladog Found Scribe: MichaelC Inferring ScribeNick: MichaelC Scribes: Ryladog, MichaelC ScribeNicks: Ryladog, MichaelC Default Present: janina, kurosawa, Joanmarie_Diggs, +1.609.759.aaaa, Jason_White, Katie_Haritos-Shea, Michael_Cooper, jcraig, +1.609.906.aabb Present: Jason_White Joanmarie_Diggs Katie_Haritos-Shea Michael_Cooper janina jcraig kurosawa Regrets: Rich Found Date: 01 Apr 2015 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2015/04/01-indie-ui-minutes.html People with action items:[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]