<trackbot> Date: 20 March 2015

<richardschwerdtfeger> meeting: W3C WAI-PF ARIA Caucus

<scribe> scribenick: fesch

<richardschwerdtfeger> https://www.w3.org/wiki/SVG_Accessibility

rich: need to interlock with Cognitive A11y task force

Cognitive Accessibility Use Cases

<richardschwerdtfeger> ACTION: Rich connect with Lisa Seeman to have an interlock discussion on Cogintive A11y Use Cases [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/03/20-svg-a11y-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-1599 - Connect with lisa seeman to have an interlock discussion on cogintive a11y use cases [on Richard Schwerdtfeger - due 2015-03-27].

https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-a11y/2015Mar/0013.html

rich: need to work on taxonomy for graphics, but we haven't reached consensus yet
... two paths - can look at use cases, or build a draft

lw: I would like to look at use cases

fe: +1

<chaals> [+1]

rich: I think we need to start with charts, I know Jason wants to start with STEM graphics

<LJWatson> +1 to starting with charts.

rich: I think we may have major taxonomies here... but where will we have decision points where we have to drill down in graphics
... do we need to focus on connectors?
... what is the feedback on Doug's Describeler? Do we need auditory feedback?
... we are talking about navigation strategy for graphics, how soon do we need to worry about connectors?
... for example where do we go to first?

fred: follow NCAM... title, axes, data, reference elements

rich: what is the navigation strategy

lw: likes Doug's navigation strategy - close to NCAM

rich: needs a strategy for chart navigation

fred: we did this for RAVE... but we should be open

<chaals> [+1 to Léonie]

<richardschwerdtfeger> ACTION: Leonie Get with Doug to build a starting navigation strategy for charts [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/03/20-svg-a11y-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-1600 - Get with doug to build a starting navigation strategy for charts [on Léonie Watson - due 2015-03-27].

fred: I believe we sighted users and users of AT will be different, sighted users will want to use arrow keys with cardinal directions,
... users of AT, cardinal directions don't work so well.

chaals: ... I think we should use a couple of dozen real charts

fred to mail zip of charts to chaals

rich: need real use cases for charts
... related to this is the connector spec
... any idea how implemented the connector spec is implemented? Figure out how to navigate via connectors

<richardschwerdtfeger> ACTION: Rich Take a look at the Connector Spec. and develop navigation strategy and identify semantic points of interest [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/03/20-svg-a11y-minutes.html#action03]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-1601 - Take a look at the connector spec. and develop navigation strategy and identify semantic points of interest [on Richard Schwerdtfeger - due 2015-03-27].

<Zakim> chaals, you wanted to say we should also look at process diagrams… and to

fred: for connectors we emulated aria-flowto with breadcrumbs or position in the list of nodes

chaals: if you have a complex flow chart, need to provide a way to know the decisions, for tree structures it is simple for cyclic charts it is not so simple
... for example a subway map is a good use case

<Zakim> LJWatson, you wanted to note there are already ARIA roles for tree structures.

lw: we already have semantics for a simple tree structure

rich: cognitive task force might help with this since it is cognitive issues

<chaals> [+1 that cognitive issues about tracking complex diagrams will be relevant to getting this right]

jw: graphs can be complicated, directed or not directed, can be in many forms, may need general strategies
... need a way for AT to process them, but need to capture important semantics, note an edge graph addresses a large class of graphs

<chaals> [mindmap is another example of a use case]

<richardschwerdtfeger> fesch: the thing where I hunted a lot on is it usable as a chart was with interactive decision trees. The decision tree is challenging itself.

<richardschwerdtfeger> fesch: It seems very complicated

jw: may need tactile display

<richardschwerdtfeger> fesch: breadth is important

<richardschwerdtfeger> fesch: Doug’s example was great but we need something that works on an industrial scale

<chaals> [Given that people catch metros and read flowcharts now, I'm not sure that full-size tactile displays are a necessary part of the solution]

jw: the more complicated it is, the more we need the techniques, so we need to scale with complexity of the graphics

rich: a big challenge is how to manage information on the chart
... will have to go to AT vendors and work with them on how to implement
... this will be more challenging than ARIA, blazing new ground
... Jason - what about the STEM graphics?

jw: STEM are very important - can we give you an action on STEM graphics

<chaals> ACTION: jason to find some STEM graphics to consider as use cases [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/03/20-svg-a11y-minutes.html#action04]

<trackbot> 'jason' is an ambiguous username. Please try a different identifier, such as family name or username (e.g., jkiss, jjwhite).

<chaals> ACTION: jjwhite to find some STEM graphics to consider as use cases [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/03/20-svg-a11y-minutes.html#action05]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-1602 - Find some stem graphics to consider as use cases [on Jason White - due 2015-03-27].

fred to send svg to chaals

<richardschwerdtfeger> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/products/29

jw: need to see whether the commonalities between groups
... different scenarios what overlap and what is unique about use cases

rich: did we get to mobility impairments?

Jw: no

chaals: complex charts interativity is complex

jw: concern is keyboard support?

rich: do we want to depend on touch device interactivity?
... wcag was dependent on keyboard interaction, 2 dimensional navigation is possible
... need to look into 2D navigation is working with AT

<chaals> ACTION: chaals to work with JasonW, MarkkuH and the universe to discover how people do interaction… [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/03/20-svg-a11y-minutes.html#action06]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-1603 - Work with jasonw, markkuh and the universe to discover how people do interaction… [on Charles McCathie Nevile - due 2015-03-27].

chaals: the way people with touch screens are different than the way they use keyboards

jw: speech input is another distinct scenario
... nobody thought that a physical keyboards were an acceptable requirement, but all other inputs could be mapped to keyboard input
... may have to support some kind of keyboard input for navigation, but we should also look at what we can do with 2D interaction (touch)
... puts pressure on navigation and interaction strategies

rich: CSUN... 508... feedback, old, doesn't address types of devices we have today
... asked to do things on a 3 - 5 year cycle
... need to provide strategy to follow technology more quickly

jw: extending richness and complexity in the graphics now... agree on wcag and standards...

chaals: need to look at a bunch of interactive patterns, speech, eye trackers, head switches....

<richardschwerdtfeger> https://www.w3.org/wiki/SVG_Accessibility#Requirements_4

chaals: need feedback loop - different ways we need feedback will be quite important

sss

<chaals> scribe: chaals

RS: Think we have plenty to do for now.

<Zakim> LJWatson, you wanted to say another reason for making interaction efficient is that it eases the cognitive load.

RS: Won't be here in 2 weeks time

FE: Nor I
... SHould I do a demo of RAID?

RS: Next week?

FE: Sure.

[+1 to a demo next week]

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Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)

Found ScribeNick: fesch
Found Scribe: chaals
Inferring ScribeNick: chaals
ScribeNicks: fesch, chaals
Default Present: fesch, Jason_White, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, LJWatson, [IPcaller], chaals
Present: fesch Jason_White Rich_Schwerdtfeger LJWatson [IPcaller] chaals
Found Date: 20 Mar 2015
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2015/03/20-svg-a11y-minutes.html
People with action items: chaals connect doug get jason jjwhite leonie lisa rich seeman with

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