W3C

- DRAFT -

Semantic Web Health Care and Life Sciences Interest Group Teleconference

24 Feb 2015

See also: IRC log

Attendees

Present
EricP, Dale_Nelson, David_Booth, Lloyd, Claude, Marc_Twagirumukiza, Kerstin_Forsberg, mscottm, Tony, Ingeborg, Darrell, Brian_Pech
Regrets
Tony, Guoqian, Claude_(maybe), Rob_Hausam
Chair
David Booth and Dale Nelson
Scribe
ericP

Contents

<trackbot> Date: 24 February 2015

Approve Minutes of previous meetings

<dbooth> San Antonio Jan 19: http://wiki.hl7.org/index.php?title=ITS_RDF_Concall_Minutes_20150119

<Marc_Twagirumukiza> Ok from my side

<dbooth> RESOLVED: Jan 19 minutes approved unanimously

<dbooth> Feb 17 mintuutes: http://wiki.hl7.org/index.php?title=ITS_RDF_Concall_Minutes_20150217

<Marc_Twagirumukiza> Ok for me

<dbooth> RESOLVED: Feb 17 minutes unanimously approved

Validation and Translation task force

<dbooth> https://www.w3.org/wiki/HCLS/ClinicalObservationsInteroperability/FHIR#Mapping

<dbooth> Eric: People indicated interest: EricP, Guoqian, Kerstin, Alejandra, Lloyd, Claude

<dbooth> ... This is about translating between different representations. Example shows mapping FHIR XML to FHIR RDF.

<dbooth> ... That was done with XSLT, which was created from FHIR documentation by a script.

<dbooth> ... ShEx was also generated, which generates the round tripping.

<dbooth> ... Meet 1 hour earlier than this call, any day of the week?

<dbooth> Lloyd: Can't 1 hour earlier.

<dbooth> Dale: Very interested, but an hour earlier is too early.

<dbooth> Eric: I'll aim for this time (11am Eastern US)

<dbooth> Claude: Any day except Thur.

<dbooth> Lloyd: Mon, Wed, Fri all ok

<dbooth> Ingeborg: Mon, Fri best

<dbooth> Dale: Mon Fri ok

<mscottm> Mon, Fri are best for me.

<dbooth> David: Mon Fri ok

<Marc_Twagirumukiza> I would join as well

<mscottm> Pref for Mon. Also, HCLS will give up the Mon slot in the next few weeks.

<mscottm> by HCLS, I mean the LLD Dataset Description W3C Note work.

<dbooth> Eric: Re CCDA-FHIR transformation in ShEx, there's a wiki page for that also. Can also work on that if people are interested.

<dbooth> Dale: My company is heaviliy involved in CCDA and CDA. Happy to join that.

<dbooth> David: When does HCLS LLD Dataset slot become available?

<dbooth> Scott: In the next few weeks.

FHIR JSON-LD update (David)

<dbooth> http://dbooth.org/2015/fhir/json-ld/fhir-in-json-ld.pdf

<scribe> scribenick: ericP

dbooth: investigated FHIR in JSON-LD to see if JSON-LD could serve as both the JSON and RDF representations of FHIR
... it appears that retrofitting FHIR/JSON to be JSON-LD won't work without some retrofitting
... some data is lost by the LD interpretation of FHIR/JSON
... FHIR JSON types and identifiers invent some of the JSON-LD facilities
... the FHIR/JSON style appears to be designed after FHIR/XML.
... some FHIR details would be have to be changed, e.g. identifier scoping and some elements
... benefits:
... .. already RDF. advantages of an RDF representation
... based on existing W3C standard rather than reinventing some JSON-LD features
... .. worth persuing, but with more folks
... it may be too late to change FHIR/JSON
... [slide 10]
... retrofitting FHIR/JSON to be JSON-LD would require an @context
... [slide 11 example of date of birth XML]
... [slide 12 example of date of birth FHIR/JSON]
... this has an extension and the extension has the same dob name except that it starts with an '_'
... these are logically related, but the relationship is only apparent if you know about the '_' convention
... [slide 14 example of date of birth @context]
... [slide 16 example of date of birth FHIR/JSON-LD]
... includes explicit relationship between "dob": and "_dob:"
... relation could be handled with:
... .. an external ontology
... .. explicit statement in the JSON-LD
... round-tripping JSON-LD to RDF dataset to JSON-LD
... this serializer embedded the context in the JSON-LD
... added an @graph {} around the data
... prefixes are lost
... the RDF representation doesn't include prefixes so the re-serialization doesn't include orig prefixes
... we'd need a special serializer for the above reasons and to stabilize blank node identifiers
... could autogenerate node IDs based on the XML
... FHIR/JSON notion of fhir:type in tension with rdf:type
... FHIR/JSON identifiers are not globally unique
... haven't gone into modifier extensions

Lloyd: is it accurate that we could make something valid JSON-LD by having a fixed context at the top?

dbooth: no because of info loss, e.g. prefixes
... when you interpret the FHIR/JSON as LD, you get some prefixes

Lloyd: if we make a custom serializer, we can override the prefixes
... we already use tuned JSON and XML serializers
... we accept that we can't use the off-the-shelf parsers
... if RDF wants to have IDs all over, we can create a serializer
... the resource id has to be local because it may end up in an atom feed where there is no guarantee of uniqueness

dbooth: we might have to add more to the JSON to make it work out

Lloyd: code system would have to appear in the instance
... 95% of the FHIR folks using JSON don't care about RDF and aren't willing to pay much tax
... after DSTU2 (March 22), we'll be more resistant to dramatic change or upsetting early adopters
... we can introduce @context later but substantial changes would have to be presented in the next week or two

dbooth: any interest here?

Lloyd: i'm interested but if we don't manage JSON-LD, we'd still be able to consume and regurgitate Turtle and RDF/XML

dbooth: i'll keep invesitaging the identifiers.

FHIR examples for driving ontology developments

dbooth: if anyone has time, let me know

<dbooth> http://wiki.hl7.org/index.php?title=FHIR_Examples_For_Driving_FHIR_Ontology_Development

dbooth: the fhir documentation has lots of examples
... it's good if we can share the same examples
... i'd like ones which are small enough to fit on slides
... request that folks scribble on the wiki page
... the BP repeats values for human-readable and querying convenience
... can it be done in a smaller version?

Lloyd: we could replace the text with a big text string as in JSON
... the repetition of values like patient and date is required

<DNelson_> http://www.hl7.org/implement/standards/fhir/observation-example-bloodpressure.xml.html

Lloyd: the combination of a systolic observation and a diastolic observation is in turn another observation

FHIR RDF Task force

dbooth: the task force work is broader than just FHIR
... we proposed spinning off another task force for FHIR/RDF with its own HL7 Project Scope Statement

DNelson_: how would this FHIR/RDF task force differ from the validation and transformation task force?

dbooth: the V&T TF isn't necessarily FHIR-specific

<dbooth> Eric: The ShEX translation strategy is a particular FHIR RDF strategy.

<dbooth> ... The scripts could also generate a schema.

<dbooth> ... so the V&T TF could produce what's needed for FHIR ontology and mapping.

<dbooth> ... The V&T TF is more prejudiced about how to do it.

dbooth: could start with a single call and see if we need to split later

<dbooth> ACTION: Claude to draft HL7 Project Scope Statement [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/02/24-hcls-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Error finding 'Claude'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/2014/HCLS/track/users>.

<dbooth> ADJOURNED

<dbooth> ts

<dbooth> s|[http://wiki.hl7.org/index.php?title=ITS_RDF_Concall_Minutes_20150217 Feb 17] # [11:10] Validat

<dbooth> io

<dbooth> s|

<dbooth> s|1. Please join my meeting.

<dbooth> s|2. Use your microphone and speakers (VoIP) - a headset is recommended. Or, call in using your telephone.

<dbooth> s| # [11:10] Validat

<dbooth> io

<dbooth> s|https://global.gotomeeting.com/join/157514853

<dbooth> s|[http://wiki.hl7.org/index.php?title=ITS_RDF_Concall_Minutes_20150217 Feb 17]

<dbooth> s| o

<dbooth> s///g

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<dbooth> s/s| # [11:10] Validat//g

<dbooth> s/s|1. Please join my meeting.||//g

<dbooth> s/s|2. Use your microphone and speakers (VoIP) - a headset is recommended. Or, call in using your telephone.||//g

<dbooth> s/s| o||//g

<dbooth> s/ts||//g

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: Claude to draft HL7 Project Scope Statement [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/02/24-hcls-minutes.html#action01]
 
[End of minutes]
Minutes formatted by David Booth's scribe.perl version 1.140 (CVS log)
$Date: 2015-02-24 17:55:41 $

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Found ScribeNick: ericP
Inferring Scribes: ericP
Default Present: ericP, +1.916.783.aaaa, DBooth, DNelson_, [IPcaller], Lloyd, Claude, Marc_Twagirumukiza, Kerstin_Forsberg, mscottm, Tony, +1.202.528.aabb, Ingeborg, +1.512.680.aacc, Darrell, +1.678.999.aadd, bpech
Present: EricP Dale_Nelson David_Booth Lloyd Claude Marc_Twagirumukiza Kerstin_Forsberg mscottm Tony Ingeborg Darrell Brian_Pech
Regrets: Tony Guoqian Claude_(maybe) Rob_Hausam
Found Date: 24 Feb 2015
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2015/02/24-hcls-minutes.html
People with action items: claude
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