Review weekly survey

<shawn> h ttps://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35532/EOweek14Jan2015/results< /p>

Shawn: Let's talk about comments, take a minute to look at the new ones that came in last night

<shawn> h ttps://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35532/EOweek14Jan2015/results< /p>

Images title

Eric: I don't think it is clear, most people think saying "Accessible Images" is a good idea but I understand your point.
... another idea was to remove the word "Concepts"

Shawn: So the three ideas are 1. leave as is 2. Accessible Images concepts 3. Accessible Images 4. Images

<Wayne> 1

<shadi> 1

<Lydia> 1

Shawn: ...any strong feelings?

<Sylvie> 1 or 4

<kevin> 4 but happy with 1

<Howard> 1

<yatil> 1 or 4

Wayne: Don't want to see Accessible first since when it is magnified it takes time to get to the actual topic

<Brent> 1

Brent: I am happy with that.

<Lydia> yes

<Howard> yes

<Wayne> exstatic

<yatil> RESOLUTION: Leave as is.

Shawn: Everyone OK with leaving as is?

Relationship of Tutorials to WCAG techniques

Shawn: Take a minute to skim...

<Lydia> no

Shawn: What do people think? Does everyone agree that we should have something on the cover page and that it should have more to say about the relationship of WCAG to the Tutorials? Any objections?

<Wayne> +1 and I like the if ... then .. else

Shawn: Then how to handle it on subsequent pages?

<yatil> RESOLUTION: Add a section to the tutorial cover page on the relationship to WCAG 2.0 with more context.

<Lydia> no

Shawn: The question came up about normative and non-normative. Do we need to not use it? Explain it?

Kevin: It is a term that needs clarification or simplification

Wayne: Our definition is not far from the non technical defintion of normative.
... it is related to the idea of standard. Standard and non-standard. It may not be as jargony as we think.

Shawn: My perspective is that outside of W3C I don't think I would know what it means.

<yatil> [[See the WCAG 2.0 standard and additional guidance in the techniques.]]

Shawn: how about if we try to include a bit more in context.

AnnaBelle: I share Kevin's confusion with the term but it seems to fit within the context of WCAG

<shawn> ? [[See the normative WCAG 2.0 standard and additional guidance in the techniques.]]

Howard: I agree it is confusing, can we link to the glossary? It is an academic word so that link would help.

Shawn: Are we OK to leave these comments for editor's discretion?

All: Yes

Permalinks

Shawn: It looks like there are people who mildly don't like them and one who strongly likes them. Proposal is leave the permalinks

<Lydia> Will the image change

Eric: I wonder if it would be a possibility to offer the option to show or hide the Permalinks and therefore meet both preferences.

<Wayne> +1 for option to hide

Shawn: So there would be at the top of the page an option to Hide Permalinks?

<Lydia> Is there a way to make the permalink icon smaller

Eric: I am in favor of them since people like to share specific places on a page

Sharron: Can't you grab the URL anyway?

Shadi: Yes if you are reading, you would have to go back to the menu and capture it. The permalink is easier

<Lydia> would a rollover text work when one points to the icon?

Shawn: The icons are not self explanatory, so if we include an explanation of what they do, we could include the optional off switch there.

Lydia: Could we provide a rollover that explains the icon?

Eric: We had more explanation of the Permalink but it was considered too long so we removed that.

Shadi: Let's work something related to Lydia's suggestion that if you click on it, a message is delivered that says "copy this link" or something short and instructive.

Shawn: On the WAI website under the left nav we sometimes have a legend for icons. Would that work on these page, maybe under "On this page"
... in terms of the ARIA hidden, with this new approach should we still discuss.

Wayne: It was a conditional suggestion based on whether it was in fact problematic for screen readers.

Shadi: I don't think it is simply a screen reader issue, since you Shawn had an issue with the visual clutter.

Wayne: Now that it has been said, I don't think aria hidden is appropriate.

Howard: Where is the example of the Permalink?

<Sylvie> The problem is not the permalink but the link text which is not really explicit when you don't look at the title. Paragraph sign does not mean much to me.

Shawn: The icon is an anchor on the Tools page, previously it was a chain link

<kevin> +1 for making it a sharing link

Sylvie: The current icon is read by the screen reader says only "paragraph sign" and I don't hear Permalink

Shawn: What is a shring link?

<yatil> Share buttons: http://www.fastcodesign.com/3031872/why-isnt-there-a- standard-share-button

<yatil> Image: http://g.fastcompany.net/multisite_files/fastcompany/imagecache/ inline-large/inline/2014/06/3031872-inline-screen-shot-2014-06- 12-at-62305-pm.png

Kevin: There is a common sharing icon.
... I am not worried about which one you choose it is just that using one of those is aligned to what you are actually doing.

<shadi> +1

Brent: But usually when you choose an icon like that you immediately are provided with options of how to share

Eric: It is not that hard to add a link to soem options if we want to do that.

Shawn: We don't
... even though it may be easy it opens up issues we don't want to deal with here.
... so we are back to the chain or the anchor, any preference?

Wayne: Why not have the options be email this link or save this link?

Shawn: Seems to be scope creep and not really worth it.

<shawn> Sharron: share icon makes sense since that is exactly what we are trying to facilitate.

<shadi> "Copy this link and share"

<shadi> "Copy and share this link"

Howard: In terms of usability, something should happen when you click on it. Some kind of feedback to the user. Maybe something along the lines of just an option to copy or email the link to help understand what it is for

Eric: I think the share icon would work quite well. It is better to have an icon that people recognize and want to use. That makes it worth it

Shawn: What are thoughts about expectations that a share icon that does not provide the expected options?

Brent: As long as some kind of options are given, I think it will be fine. It is used several ways. So if we indicate that you can copy or email that would be enough

Sharron: +1

Shawn: The proposal is to use the share icon and when you click it you get...what? A popup message to email or copy the link? Is that easy to implement?

Eric: Yes it is do-able

<Wayne> +1 for consisstency

<shadi> +1 if eric thinks it *doable*

Shawn: Any objections?

<Howard> no objections here

<kevin> +1

<Brent> +1

<yatil> +1

Shawn: Will we change it everywhere else we have permalinks?
... if we like it when we see it in context, we may want to consider consistency and make the change throughout the WAI pages.

<yatil> RESOLUTION: Eric to develop a permalink widget to be used in the tutorials first and probably apply it to other permalinks in other projects at some time as well.

Consideration of color changes

<shawn> current version http://www.w3.or g/WAI/tutorials/forms/labels/

<shawn> revised version: http://w3c.github.io/wai- tutorials/forms/labels/

<shawn> Added color to the left navigation (red instead of gray squares, blue instead of gray list headings).

<shawn> Added color to the right in-page navigation (blue border and heading instead of - you guessed it - gray).

<shawn> Changed link color to blue in the content area (not from gray).

<shawn> Removed the white box around "Related WCAG resources" (to gray ;-).

Eric: People especially on WCAG complained that the design was too grey. We added color to navigation and inpage navigation menus. added blue background and to the bottom a grey background

AnnaBelle: I don't know if it is just because I was accustomed to the old one, but I am having some trouble shifting gears. I liked the old look very much. So my reactions now is slightly negative. I like the red number in the left nav but otherwise I am not warming to it.
... I think I need more time

Shawn: OK...others?

Howard: The blue on the right and the red number, I think it is great. Otherwise it was blending in This makes scanning the page much easier. It hink the changes are positive.

<shadi> +1 to Howard

Sharron: I like it

Howard: The colors improved my mood

Shadi: I love it, excellent work Eric. It highlights, gives better focus to the central content because the side content is clearly a side bar

Kevin: I don't have a lot to add, I think it is a great use of color, not too much, just enough to make it pop. I agree with Shadi about perhaps adding styling to related Resources. Only unsure about the border of the side navigation the On This Page - there is something about it that does not quite gel

<AnnaBelle> If going to use dark blue, I'd recommend making the blues align with the WAI graphic at top right. It's #005A9C which is different family of blues than #003366

Shawn: Agree to make the Related Resources more distinguished, a border would be fine as long as it looks deliberate and maybe a smaller font
... did not like the reverse color
... don't feel strongly

Brent: I agree with Kevin and Shadi that the Related Resources are good in a white box and could use a border.

Shawn: Maybe a subtle grey background to align with the pages that it links to?

EO working together

<shawn> https://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/EOWG_Meetings#Work_for_this_week< /a>

Shawn: We ask everyone to put comments into a weekly survey and to make tasks very clear, the email will link to the one wiki page where current assignment lives
... how is it working?

Wayne: Seems to be a disconnect between work for this week and the agenda
... so we did not look at the results of the surveys for example.

Shawn: Eric is taking that feedback from the surveys and will summarize and bring back to the group only those that need discussion
... WCAG-WG is also commenting so there is quite a bit there and we did not want to use teleconference time to go through all. Taking suggestions and working through them, listing the changes and then asking for another survey to approve the batch of changes.Wayne: I thought we were discussing the Forms comments today. I am a bit concerned about losing the EO focus in the comments by the merge with WCAG comments which are more technical. We talk about readability, style, usefulness as a teaching tool. Since WCAG looks at the technical issues, our perspective may get lost.Shawn:Your comments are in queue for consideration as Eric works through them.
... One of the things we try to do - not always successful - are to have the Eric/Shadi/Shawn discussions before the meeting. Between the time that things are done (data in the survey) and the time it is brought to EO there may be a week or two lag time in between.
... WCAG is still discussing issues as well. Eric started the survey for next week and I suggested that rather than trickling down a few questions at a time, we batch them.
... not sure if we will have EO related questions on the tutorials this week. Several have completed the first, many still need to coomplete the others, the sooner the better. Any other questions or comments?Lydia> Yes Lydia> I understand. Shawn: Or if you have any questions, welcome to bring them at any time. There are new dates in the Availability questionairre, please answer those. Brent: How often do new people join. I ask because the welcome email was helpful but I had trouble finding time to sort through. The orientation I got in person from Sharron was what actually got me up to speed. If new members join often enough, it would be great to have an orientation like that for each.Shawn: One or two people a year join and if you would find it useful, Lydia just let me know. And even you Howard, if you need re-orientation since your absence.Wayne: I like the new organization by the way, it makes sense to me.

EOWG Face-to-Face Meeting

Shawn: We will not have a formal EOWG meeting at CSUN but hoping to do something at AccessU in Mayshawn> everyone PLEASE update your Availability for possible EOWG face-to-face meetings in 2015 shawn> https://www. w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35532/eowg2015f2f/

AnnaBelle: I think I may be able to be there after all in Austin so it might work out for me

Shawn: Any other comments about meeting/usability testing at AccessU?

<AnnaBelle> It will depend on exact days of meetings. Also have my daughter's wedding on 5/16 which I kinda have to be at beforehand :-)

<yatil> Survey works well for the editor as well. Much more efficient.

Shawn: Great, from my perspective the surveys work well, it allows us to gather everyone's initial thoughts quickly and can use the conference to get through more things more effective. Thanks to everyone. Happy Friday, have a good week end

Summary of Action Items

[End of minutes]

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