See also: IRC log
<trackbot> Date: 18 December 2014
<scribe> scribe: allanj
we have a room (we hope), tables, page on UAWG page, some form to complete for results, etc, one half day, 10 - 15 tests
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2014OctDec/0083.html
Split 1.1.5 so that the first two bullets are a and the third bullet is aa. ier and handles must be split as well.
see: Justin has low vision and
works in a noisy environment that makes it difficult to listen
to instructional videos. When he enlarges the text of the
captions to a viewable size, they block most of the video
image. When he is using his smart phone, Justin selects an
option that causes the video to pause when the caption track
comes on so he can read it, then turns the caption track off
so...
... he can see the video using the full screen.
<Greg> I'm not sure the 2nd Justin example, of pausing the video every time the captions change, is practical or implemented.
kp: agree
<Greg> Second, when a paragraph only mentions one person I think we can use their name the first time and use a pronoun thereafter, as it's quite unusual to always refer to someone by name.
<Greg> Third, it would be good in general to distinguish the situations before and after he makes a change; in this draft you have to get far into the third sentence before you're sure that this is showing the solution rather than continuing a description of the problem.
<Greg> We could start the third sentence with "To fix this, he..."
<Greg> "Justin has low vision and works in a noisy environment that makes it difficult to listen to instructional videos. When he enlarges the text of the captions to a viewable size, they block most of the video image. *To fix this,* he selects an option that displays the caption track in a separate window, which he positions below the video image so the captions don't block the video image."
<Greg> For B I'd just change the Intent paragraph a bit to make it clearer that this is about fonts and colors; the generic "configure" can also include position and the like, which are explicitly in A rather than here in B.
<Kim> Users who require or can benefit from alternative media tracks in video
<Kim> or audio might find that recognized text displayed within alternate
<Kim> media tracks is unusable due to its configuration. Enabling the user to
<Kim> configure alternate media tracks (e.g. changing caption font and color) allows content to be
<Kim> displayed in a way that meets the needs of the user.
<jeanne2> ACTION: jeanne to split 1.1.5 from email with edits from above. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/12/18-ua-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-1064 - Split 1.1.5 from email with edits from above. [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2014-12-25].
kim's edits are for Intent 1.1.5b
remove second Justin example in 1.1.5b
use Gregs edits above for first Justin example in 1.1.5b
Close Action-1047
<trackbot> Closed Action-1047.
RESOLUTION: MS06 1.1.5 accepted. New SC written
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2014OctDec/0089.html
close action-1044
<trackbot> Closed action-1044.
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2014OctDec/0082.html
<Greg> Ahh, my original suggestion was to add an example that someone may want to turn off images because some are painfully high contrast, not about configuring the replacement text.
start of thread http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2014OctDec/0084.html
discussion of placement of conformance section.
jr: Conformance is normative. need to keep a reminder at the top, section is important. If there is something that should not be normative...flag them.
discussing http://w3c.github.io/UAAG/UAAG20/#applicability-notes
<Jan> http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20/#conformance-reqs
gl: don't see them a Conformance, these are things that should be in individual SC, but would be in so many SCs as to make reading difficult. Would lean towards removing Conformance from the title
jr: depends how you read the document. top to bottom or conformance first. As long as there are notes to cross reference them, all should be good.
<Greg> I don't think of these as really being related to Conformance. They are bits of SC that should really be part of lots of SC, but were factored out to make the SC less repetitive and thus easier to read and understand. The Conformance section is generally more process-oriented and less technical than these notes and the SC.
<Greg> Similarly I don't think of them as being part of the Introduction (which is non-normative), but being part of the normative section containing principles, guidelines, and success criteria.
eh: want to have a coherent introduction. these seem a mixed bag. perhaps more explanation about what they are.
gl: good idea to have a para before the list, these apply to many of the SC, and should be read before this list and assumed to be included in many SCs
ja: +1
jr: +1
eh: is the UA definition changed.
jr: see my Action 1060 email http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2014OctDec/0091.html
<Jan> ACTION: Jan to write an intro paragraph for UAAG 2.0 Conformance Applicability Notes [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/12/18-ua-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-1065 - Write an intro paragraph for uaag 2.0 conformance applicability notes [on Jan Richards - due 2014-12-25].
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2014OctDec/0091.html
<Jan> http://w3c.github.io/UAAG/UAAG20/#sc_511
eh: back to conformance. not
clear on the value of the other Applicability notes. Why are
they there.
... web-based UA
<Jan> Native user agent - http://w3c.github.io/UAAG/UAAG20/#gl-AT-access
jr: native user agent ... Chrome is a native UA , but all of its settings are web based
<Jan> "Plug-in" used 17 times
eh: what about applicability
notes. which SC apply.
... want a good understandable document
<Jan> eh: maybe add "such as mobile and desktop browsers, plug-in"
eh: if we knew that a UA had to
do all of these things. then things that do not do all of these
things then it is not a user agent.
... give a rationale for what is a UA and what is not
... want to preserve browser, media player, robust unlimited
data sources.
*user agent*:
Any software that retrieves, renders and facilitates end user interaction with web content. This includes:
- *native user agents* that run on operating systems and that perform content retrieval, rendering and end-user interaction facilitation themselves. A native user agent that is a browser may be referred to as a *base browser*.
- *embedded user agents* (or *plug-ins*) that are installed into other user agents (e.g. media player plug-in for a native browser). Embedded user agents may establish direct connections with the platform (e.g. communication via platform accessibility services).
- *web-based user agents* that have user interfaces implemented using web content technologies and that are accessed by users via a native user agent (e.g. web-based e-book reader, web-based video player). Note: Only a limited sub-set of UAAG 2.0 success criteria will typically apply to web-based user agents. See @@Link to note@@.
Notes:
- Many web applications retrieve, render and facilitate interaction with very limited data sets (e.g. online ticket booking). In these cases, WCAG 2.0, rather than UAAG 2.0, is the most appropriate standard for assessing the accessibility of the application.
- The UAAG 2.0 Reference includes some examples of tools that are and are not considered user agents.
should be a link to the examples in the Reference Document
Reference Document
<Jan> - The UAAG 2.0 Reference includes some examples @@link to reference@@ of software that are and are not considered user agents.
Examples of software that are generally considered user agents under UAAG 2.0:
- Desktop web browsers (e.g. Internet Explorer, Firefox, Chrome, Safari, Opera)
- Mobile web browsers (e.g. Firefox, Chrome, Safari, Android Browser, Opera Mini, Atomic Web, Puffin)
- Browser plug-ins (e.g. QuickTime Plug-in for Firefox, Acrobat Reader Plug-in for Internet Explorer, Shockwave Plug-in for Chrome)
- Authoring tools that render the web content being edited (e.g. Word, Dreamweaver, HTML-Kit)
Note: Web view components (e.g. Webkit Webview component, Web Tools Platform Plug-in for Eclipse, UIWebView for iOS) can be used to develop new user agents. For UAAG 2.0 conformance, it is preferable to assess the complete user agent.
Examples of software that are not considered user agents under UAAG 2.0 (in all cases, WCAG 2.0 still applies if the software is web-based):
- Operating environments or software bundles that include platform-based user agents (e.g. Windows, OS X, KDE, iOS), though the included user agents themselves are covered by UAAG 2.0.
- General-purpose platforms or toolkits that don't use web technologies, even though they may be used by user agents for other purposes (e.g. GNOME, KDE, .NET Framework/CLR).
- Narrow-purpose platform-based or web applications (e.g. online ticket booking applications).
- Authoring tools that only display a source view of the web content being edited (e.g. Notepad, Vim).
gl: could include Trident as an example of a web view component
eh: would it make sense to put this in guidelines in a non-normative section so they don't have to switch documents to see examples of what is and is not considered a UA
jr: there are lots of real world names of products, they may go away, or become dated, don't want them in the normative guideline document
gl: what about QQ which is a wrapper for Trident web view component
jr: see the note.
gl: doesn't say ... for the purposes of UA X is not a user agent.
<Jan> Examples of software that are not considered user agents under UAAG 2.0 (in all cases, WCAG 2.0 still applies if the software is web-based):
<Jan> - Operating environments or software bundles that include platform-based user agents (e.g. Windows, OS X, KDE, iOS), though the included user agents themselves are covered by UAAG 2.0.
<Jan> - General-purpose platforms or toolkits that don't use web technologies, even though they may be used by user agents for other purposes (e.g. GNOME, KDE, .NET Framework/CLR).
<Jan> - Narrow-purpose platform-based or web applications (e.g. online ticket booking applications).
<Jan> - Authoring tools that only display a source view of the web content being edited (e.g. Notepad, Vim).
<Greg> That is, I felt it was a little weird that it's implied that web view components are user agents (although it's preferable not to test them independently), but they don't fit into any of the three categories of user agents.
<Jan> - Web view components (e.g. Webkit Webview component, Web Tools Platform Plug-in for Eclipse, UIWebView for iOS) that can be used to develop new user agents. For UAAG 2.0 conformance, it is preferable to assess the complete user agent.
<Greg> Editorial: "that are used to develop user agents"? (They're used by existing UA as well as new ones, and are used ONLY for building UA.)
eh: web view component is not a UA because ???
jr: doesn't facilitate enduser interaction. but webview component is not a running piece of software, it needs everything else around it.
eh: concerned with "base browser" doesn't add anything to the definition.
Close Action-1060
<trackbot> Closed Action-1060.
Next Meeting after this one...Jan 8, 2015
close action-1041 rewrite 1.3.2
close action-1042 Duplicate items(?)
close action-1049 fix 5.1.3
close action-1050 in-page search
close action-1054 fix 5.1.3
close action-1056 SC 4.1 pf review
close action-1041
<trackbot> Closed action-1041.
close action-1042
<trackbot> Closed action-1042.
close action-1049
<trackbot> Closed action-1049.
close action-1050
<trackbot> Closed action-1050.
close action-1054
<trackbot> Closed action-1054.
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.140 of Date: 2014-11-06 18:16:30 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Found Scribe: allanj Inferring ScribeNick: allanj Default Present: Jeanne, Jan, Greg_Lowney, Jim_Allan, Kim_Patch, Eric Present: Jeanne Jan Greg_Lowney Jim_Allan Kim_Patch Eric Found Date: 18 Dec 2014 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2014/12/18-ua-minutes.html People with action items: jan jeanne[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]