See also: IRC log
rbyers, my you're early ;)
<rbyers> artb: hah, just trying to be prepared
:-)
<rbyers> artb: You'll be on the call today, right?
<rbyers> If so, would you mind being scribe? I'm terrible at multi-tasking.
<rbyers> I'll have a couple other Chrome folks from my team join us today, but they're new to W3C meetings so don't want to ask them to scribe our very first call ;-)
rbyers, I'm double booked ATM but will try to reschedule
FYI, I don't think the mins need to be too detailed
<rbyers> ArtB: Ok, no worries if you can't make it - I'm sure I can talk someone else who's done it before into scribing
perhaps Doug can help
it can also be "shared" responsibility
<rbyers> yep, thanks
<patrick_h_lauke> ...next time i should actually read the agenda ;)
yeah, that got me too :)
<patrick_h_lauke> old habits die hard
<patrick_h_lauke> i'm in the call...is it not showing here as IP caller etc?
<jrossi> having mic probs...just a sec
<smaug> I guess I could
wfm2
<smaug> hello
<rbyers> Tim and Mustaq
<patrick_h_lauke> agenda looks good to me
<smaug> is it just me, or is the audio quality really bad?
<jrossi> yes it's bad for me
<jrossi> [hold music]
<patrick_h_lauke> :)
<patrick_h_lauke> no objection from me to using github
<jrossi> rbyers: any objections to using GH?
<jrossi> jrossi: +1 from me
<jrossi> rbyers: should we use smoon's repo or wait for w3c?
<scribe> ACTION: barstow make sure w3c staff creates github/w3c/touch-events repo [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/12/16-touchevents-minutes.html#action01]
<rbyers> Discussion on how to transfer GitHub from Sangwhan to W3C org
<rbyers> Scott: Search for "transfer repo to github organization"
<scottgonzalez> https://help.github.com/articles/transferring-a-repository/#transferring-from-a-user-to-an-organization
<jrossi> jrossi: looks like I can't create repos
<jrossi> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-touchevents/2014Dec/0023.html
http://www.w3.org/TR/touch-events/
<jrossi> shepazu: I can create this repo
<jrossi> shepazu: done
<shepazu> https://github.com/w3c/touch-events
<rbyers> We have a github repo: https://github.com/w3c/touch-events
<shepazu> Mike5, I done did it!
<rbyers> Thanks Doug
<rbyers> This is the current errata link: https://github.com/w3c/touch-events
<rbyers> damn
<rbyers> This is the current errata link: https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/webevents/raw-file/v1-errata/touchevents.html
<rbyers> Do we care about these becoming stale?
<jrossi> rbyers: do we care about that getting stale?
<jrossi> jrossi: do we know what's been done in the past?
<jrossi> smaug: I think the editor's draft needs to be changed
<patrick_h_lauke> yeah think repointing "Latest editor's draft:" to github
<jrossi> jrossi: I don't think people have the v1-errata, but maybe add a banner to point people to github
<jrossi> jrossi: do we add a link to REC?
<patrick_h_lauke> do we also need something to point from github from https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/webevents/ ?
I'll defer to Doug
but we can get PLH on the call?
<jrossi> rbyers: I think we add it once there's some more stable errata with some consensus
<jrossi> shepazu: should we publish on specs.webplatform.org?
<jrossi> jrossi: I think those are github repos, so could be done as additional step?
<rbyers> Current errata link from REC spec: http://www.w3.org/TR/2013/REC-touch-events-20131010/REC-touch-events-20131010-errata.html
<jrossi> [back on question about link from REC to errata]
<jrossi> rbyers: I think it's ok to punt on this, add it once we have more changes and care
<jrossi> jrossi: I agree
<jrossi> shepazu: I agree. once published we try not to mess with it, but the errata is meant to be updated. i'll proceed from a policy perspective internally to confirm right mechanism to do that.
<jrossi> ACTION: shepazu to investigate policy on updating REC with link to errata and bug tracker [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/12/16-touchevents-minutes.html#action02]
<jrossi> shepazu: do we want specs.webplatform.org?
<jrossi> jrossi: sure
<jrossi> rbyers: sure
<patrick_h_lauke> +1
-> http://www.w3.org/TR/touch-events-extensions/ TE Extensions Note
<patrick_h_lauke> radius stuff is a substantial change, so not an errata
<jrossi> rbyers: I think we should focus on errata stuff and not feature stuff for now
<jrossi> jrossi: agree
<jrossi> patrick_h_lauke: right, can't change the REC to change the conforming status of existing implementations
<jrossi> rbyers: [gives example of changing spec normatively but to match implementations]
<jrossi> rbyers: I think smaug suggested W3C bugzilla
<jrossi> rbyers: are there reasons for this other than GitHub issues?
<jrossi> smaug: where do we get notifications of new stuff?
<jrossi> rbyers: you can star it
<jrossi> rbyers: may not be mailing list integration
<jrossi> smaug: we could create an account to have it get notified
<jrossi> jrossi: you'll lose rssbot/tracker support if we use GH issues, but I don't have a preference.
<patrick_h_lauke> jrossi: if we do use W3C bugzilla then disable issues on github so we don't have fragmented bugs
<jrossi> shepazu: more people have github accounts, so I'd prefer that
<jrossi> shepazu: there's a script dom wrote that can send notifications to the list
<jrossi> shepazu: not yet integration with irc, but there may be bots out there
<jrossi> asir: you can create a github system account that tracks and sends to a list
-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps-github/ WebApps' github list
<jrossi> scottgonzalez: if we're only talking about 1-way communication, there's existing support. If you want to create an issue from IRC/etc, then you need something special.
<jrossi> shepazu: I think such bots exist, but nobody has used at W3C
<jrossi> rbyers: sounds like their consensus, smaug what do you think?
<jrossi> smaug: I think I can live with that
<jrossi> Resolution: move the spec to GitHub and use GH issues for bugs
<jrossi> shepazu: can we get consensus for jrossi is awesome?
<jrossi> wg: yes! :-p
<jrossi> rbyers: do we need tracker?
<jrossi> jrossi: I like tracker for action tracking
<jrossi> rbyers: think we need some formal thing to get it set up
<jrossi> shepazu: I can look into that
<rbyers> Update co-ordinate types from long to double: https://github.com/cynthia/touch-events/commit/5afd36fafcb998227c2fff30f9fedfee2cf654cc
<rbyers> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1_ufW8xbb0hNzPlvuuxrpeQ6bkHxQ_MfDic7jxnwTr4A/edit
<jrossi> rbyers: haven't had a single bug with using fractional components on TE coords
<rbyers> scratch that
<rbyers> Update touchmove behavior on preventDefault: https://github.com/cynthia/touch-events/commit/41fdc4879563477bf3ff69463611fa8865f847ec, https://github.com/cynthia/touch-events/commit/35ee14ed53705f66497743692c38853abd244f0b
<jrossi> rbyers: [blink] hasn't had a single bug, that is
<jrossi> jrossi: I think the change is good, though may need to note a specific coordinate delta between touchstart and first touchmove as we've seen for compat/interop on the web today
<jrossi> rbyers: really no good way in safari to gaurantee
<jrossi> jrossi: maybe there's just a minimum
<rbyers> Related bug filed against Safari: https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=138151
<jrossi> rbyers: I tried to determine that, but it seems it's not always a gaurantee
<jrossi> rbyers: could consider adding a note to say "most implementations will see a movement of ___"
<jrossi> rbyer: going to be fuzzy, because it's hard to be precise
<jrossi> rbyers: on Chrome for Android, the value comes from the OS
<rbyers> Clarify effect of cancelling touchend event: https://github.com/cynthia/touch-events/commit/4fd174ab1694fc96dc3fc6a43bad40c70b4594fd
<jrossi> rbyers: we should consider this a separate issue, and if we can't solve it then consider a new API for reliably doing this
<jrossi> [last rbyers scribe comment was about previous touchmove issue]
<jrossi> rbyers: the touchend edit clarifies pD() on touchend supresses mouse events
<jrossi> rbyers: android browser didn't do this, but that's a bug and it's been fixed
<jrossi> rbyers: patrick, how would you summarize your changes?
<jrossi> patrick_h_lauke: these are clarifications that don't change behavior
<jrossi> rbyers: took a lot of learnings from PE and tried to harmonize them in TE
<jrossi> patrick_h_lauke: like adding example sequences to the spec
<jrossi> patrick_h_lauke: using terminology like "compatibility mouse events"
<jrossi> patrick_h_lauke: other stylistic things
<jrossi> rbyers: I suggest patrick puts up PRs for each of the suggested changes
<jrossi> patrick_h_lauke: yes, I can do that
<jrossi> ACTION: patrick_h_lauke to submit PRs for suggested changes once repo is set up [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/12/16-touchevents-minutes.html#action03]
<jrossi> rbyers: that's all I had on errata edits for now
<jrossi> rbyers: anything else?
<jrossi> patrick_h_lauke: I think we're waiting on PFWG to provide their document on device mapping
<jrossi> patrick_h_lauke: would be good to get a better understanding of what they want to talk about
<jrossi> rbyers: should we discuss "Identifying mouse events derived from touch" now?
<jrossi> jrossi: I think we can have more list discussion first
<patrick_h_lauke> the idea of indicating a derived event should be an extension type thing / new API
<jrossi> rbyers: and some of the proposals might go into DOM/UI Events
<patrick_h_lauke> but in principle i agree having ... some kind of flag in the event
<jrossi> ACTION: jrossi to share proposal on this topic [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/12/16-touchevents-minutes.html#action04]
yes agree!
thanks Rick
<jrossi> rbyers: excited to have this call, even if we don't add features, cleaning this up is valuable
<jrossi> patrick_h_lauke: I agree, this will really help
<jrossi> jrossi: agree, we've had a tough time getting interop in IE here and clarifications will go a long way for us and future implementors
<shepazu> http://www.w3.org/community/touchevents/
<shepazu> https://github.com/w3c/touch-events
<shepazu> http://www.w3.org/TR/2013/REC-touch-events-20131010/REC-touch-events-20131010-errata.html
<patrick_h_lauke> shepazu: i would add a link to the community group and the github repo to the above errata page
<jrossi> shepazu: will update REC errata page to point to CG, GitHub spec, etc
<patrick_h_lauke> SGTM
<jrossi> jrossi: SGTM
<shepazu> mbrubeck, we assigned you all the actions
<mbrubeck> \o/
<rbyers> mbrubeck No worries, just ramping up on administratvia mostly today, should get more interesting in the new year :-)
<smaug> mbrubeck: I've been setting up calendar and email for few hours now
<smaug> but seems to work now, sort of
<shepazu> http://www.w3.org/TR/2013/REC-touch-events-20131010/REC-touch-events-20131010-errata.html
<scribe> scribenick: ArtB
<scribe> Scribe: Jacob
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.140 of Date: 2014-11-06 18:16:30 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/to/from/ Succeeded: s/functional/substantial/ Succeeded: s/smaug/rbyers/ Succeeded: s/WebAps/WebApps/ Found ScribeNick: ArtB Found Scribe: Jacob Default Present: Scott_Gonzalez, +44.797.663.aaaa, rbyers, jrossi, patrick_h_lauke, Art_Barstow, +1.571.426.aabb, Olli_Pettay, Doug_Schepers Present: Rick Jacob Tim Mustaq Scott Olli Art Doug Asir Patrick Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-touchevents/2014Dec/0020.html Got date from IRC log name: 16 Dec 2014 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2014/12/16-touchevents-minutes.html People with action items: barstow jrossi patrick_h_lauke shepazu WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines. You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option.[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]