See also: IRC log
<trackbot> Date: 13 November 2014
<scribe> scribe: allanj
Comment Response Document: http://jspellman.github.io/UAAG-LC-Comment/
gl: channeling TPAC discussion. http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2014OctDec/0046.html#item28
jr: tried to write a test for this, could not figure it out. so if we reword it, we must also write a test.
js: have to test every element that can take a handler, and all handlers.
ja: combinatorics explode!!!
gl: rewrite to specifically target scripted functionality for badly written pages
ja: target what?
js: need to narrow it, to exactly what we want...and technology neutral. onClick events, or rightClick. otherwise too many things to test.
jr: javascript handler on an element, every element they can select with a keyboard, bring up a list of handlers and activate them from the keyboard
gl: perhaps remove handlers/events and focus on standard inputs ... click, spacebar, enter,
jr: so bad page with bad code what is the test?
gl: div with hover, shows a popup. how to do that with a keyboard
jr: author doesnot write keyboard code, is the browser to repair, or just show all handlers
gl: we had a SC that lets all enabled elements be operable from the keyboard.
jr: so if tabindex=-1 then UA overrides
ja: will break web applications
jr: you can use AT to do this. what does browser do?
gl: for UA to all nav to all enabled elements, for div must analyze script for events then add element to tab order
jr: not asking if it is possible, but does this rise to what we want UA to do.
gl: it is a repair function. we have to decide if it is important.
jr: are we in business of overriding authors
gl: for colors, fonts, etc. ...yes,
jr: can see the value, do we have any way to test or any implementations we can look at
from UAAG1
1.2 Activate event handlers (P1) Checkpoint 1.2
Allow the user to activate, through keyboard input alone, all input device event handlers that are explicitly associated with the element designated by the content focus.
In order to satisfy provision one of this checkpoint, the user must be able to activate as a group all event handlers of the same input device event type. For example, if there are 10 handlers associated with the onmousedown event type, the user must be able to activate the entire group of 10 through keyboard input alone, and must not be required to activate each handler separately.
inclusion & exclusions
1. Provision one of this checkpoint applies to handlers of any input device event type, including event types for keyboard, pointing device, and voice input.
2. The user agent is not required to allow activation of event handlers associated with a given device (e.g., the pointing device) in any order other than what the device itself allows (e.g., a mouse down event followed by a mouse drag event followed by a mouse up event).
3. The requirements for this checkpoint refer to any explicitly associated input device event handlers associated with an element, independent of the input modalities for which the user agent conforms. For example, suppose that an element has an explicitly associated handler for pointing device events. Even when the user agent only conforms for keyboard input (and does not conform for the...
scribe: pointing device, for example), this checkpoint requires the user agent to allow the user to activate that handler with the keyboard.
<Jan> http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/TS/html401/
js: Proposal: eliminate, because we have no implementations, or a way to test.
ja: so JAWS has a feature of navigating to anything with a javascript attached.
thoughts of proposal
jr: put it in purgatory, style to remove but not really removed.
ja: like jr idea of if no test or implementations in x weeks then eliminated
js: what about putting just in reference doc.
jr: can we attach it to some
other SC as an example.
... gl...what are chances of test or implementations being
found
gl: would need an extension.
jr: what do speech users do to activate hover events
kp: they can't, they don't know
they are there. moving the mouse is very difficult and
tedious.
... if I need the event, I can create some macro. otherwise
very tedious
jr: mobile area may help in this area.
kp: they have solved this, but not implemented in desktop
gl: are gestures (pinch, drag, etc) unique to each UA
kp: gesture is 3d, but some think it is 2d touch event
ja: need hover from keyboard
jr: html5 touch events, and are
different from mouse events
... in IOS they have adaptive touch configuration
<Greg> Touch Events https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/webevents/raw-file/tip/touchevents.html
gl: could create a simple doc with div with hover and a few others.
jr: too many handlers and elements
gl: representative samples?
jr: yes, so what are the representative samples?
ja: onclick, ondblclick, onmousedown, onmouseover, onmouseout, onfocus, onblur, onkeypress, onkeydown, and onkeyup.
gl: are there others standardized.
js: could move to AAA, but need
implementation
... and test
ja: eliminate or AAA and make a test and find implementation
jr: Looking at UAAG1
http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/impl-pr2/evaluations/eval_win_ie6.html#tech-device-independent-handlers-2
<Jan> http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/implementation/eval_win_wineyes411.html#device-independent-handlers
jr: there is no implementation in UAAG1 but only with AT, the UA did nothing
<jeanne> +1 to eliminate
Proposal: Remove GL 2.6
<Jan> +1
<Kim> +1
<Eric> +1
<Greg> I remain unhappy about it but accede to the will of the group.
ja: +1
RESOLUTION: Remove GL2.6
comment: 2.7 needs a level A about picking up OS settings. The rest look ok for level
jr: this is covered in 5.1.3
5.1.3 Implement Accessibility Features of the Platform: If the user agent contains non-web-based user interfaces, then those user interfaces follow user interface accessibility guidelines for the platform. (Level A)
Note: When a requirement of another specification contradicts a requirement of UAAG 2.0, the user agent may disregard the rendering requirement of the other specification and still satisfy this guideline.
js: reference 5.1.3 respect system/platform settings
<Jan> 5.1.3 Implement Accessibility Features of the Platform: If the user agent contains non-web-based user interfaces, then those user interfaces respect platform settings and follow user interface accessibility guidelines for the platform. (Level A)
gl: example in 5.1.3 is needed for HighContrast Mode
<Jan> 5.1.3 Implement Accessibility Features of the Platform: If the user agent contains non-web-based user interfaces, then those user interfaces respect platform accessibility settings and follow user interface accessibility guidelines for the platform. (Level A)
example for 5.1.3 Sasha requires high contrast to be able to discriminate the shape of letters. She has set the accessibility preferences on her computer to use high contrast mode. When she launches her browser, it detects that she is using high contrast and adjusts the font and color settings for its user interface to reflect those settings.
gl: how to test?
<Jan> Test 0001 Assertion: Any non-web-based portions of the authoring tool user interface follow the accessibility guidelines for the platform.
<Jan> If the authoring tool is entirely web-based (i.e. lacking any functionality that runs outside of a user agent), then select SKIP.
<Jan> If the non-web-based parts include editing views (as opposed to only a file uploader, etc.), then load the accessible test content file (any level).
<Jan> If the accessibility guideline (for the platform) that was used by the developer is known, this should be used to test the accessibility of the user interface. If the user interface has followed the guidelines, then select PASS, otherwise select FAIL.
jr: review platform specs. provide things to test for,
<Jan> If the accessibility guideline (for the platform) that was used by the developer is not known, choose the most relevant from this list of user interface accessibility guidelines for various platforms and use it to test the accessibility of the user interface. If you find instances where the user interface has not followed the guidelines, then select FAIL, otherwise select PASS.
<Jan> http://www.w3.org/WAI/AU/2013/ATAG2-10April2012PublicWD-Tests
<Jan> http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/WD-IMPLEMENTING-ATAG20-20120410/#sc_a121
eh: what if other settings in the OS that conflict with the UA
gl: the user has chosen their
settings...so the UA should respect.
... not so much the settings but the design conventions, user
should be able to override them
5.1.3 rewording
5.1.3 Implement Accessibility Features of the Platform: If the user agent contains non-web-based user interfaces, then those user interfaces respect platform accessibility settings and follow user interface accessibility guidelines for the platform. (Level A)
example for 5.1.3 Sasha requires high contrast to be able to discriminate the shape of letters. She has set the accessibility preferences on her computer to use high contrast mode. When she launches her browser, it detects that she is using high contrast and adjusts the font and color settings for its user interface to reflect those settings.
<jeanne> ACTION: Jeanne to reword 5.1.3 as above. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/11/13-ua-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-1054 - Reword 5.1.3 as above. [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2014-11-20].
<jeanne> ACTION: jeanne to move example from 2.7.4 high contrast. Copy to 5.1.3 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/11/13-ua-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-1055 - Move example from 2.7.4 high contrast. copy to 5.1.3 [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2014-11-20].
any issues with rewording 5.1.3?
none heard
RESOLUTION: new wording for 5.1.3 Implement Accessibility Features of the Platform: If the user agent contains non-web-based user interfaces, then those user interfaces respect platform accessibility settings and follow user interface accessibility guidelines for the platform. (Level A)
any issues with adding cross reference to 5.1.3 in GL 2.7 to address MS06?
jr: where do we put the cross reference?
js: put on all level A of
2.7
... place 5.1.3 cross reference in the related resources
section of all 2.7 SC
jr: this is just informative.
Proposal: remove note in 5.1.3 Note: When a requirement of another specification contradicts a requirement of UAAG 2.0, the user agent may disregard the rendering requirement of the other specification and still satisfy this guideline.
objections?
no objections
RESOLUTION: remove Note: in 5.1.3
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.140 of Date: 2014-11-06 18:16:30 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Found Scribe: allanj Inferring ScribeNick: allanj Default Present: Jeanne, Greg_Lowney, Jim_Allan, Jan, Kim_Patch, Eric Present: Jeanne Greg_Lowney Jim_Allan Jan Kim_Patch Eric Found Date: 13 Nov 2014 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2014/11/13-ua-minutes.html People with action items: jeanne[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]