<scribe> scribe: Léonie Watson

scribenick LJWatson

Planning workflow

MK: We need somewhere to document our work plan and decisions taken etc.

LW: The wiki us the usual place.

JN: Could we keep it in one place in Git?

MK: Let's ask on the editors call.

LW: If docs weren't published, people will have to download the repo.

JN: Where we make changes, perhaps we should leave editor's notes in the APG - so we can revisit and remove later.

MK: Or file bugs in Bugzilla - and keep the doc clean.
... There must be rationale behind the best practices we include, and we should document the thinking behind it.

BG: Agree. Also info about supporting ATs.

MK: We previously agreed to put info like that into the APG as notes.

BG: An idea from TPAC... good to have tutorials on how to construct the design patterns.

LW: That could go with the examples.

Link design pattern

<mattking> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/buglist.cgi?cmdtype=runnamed&list_id=46979&namedcmd=APG%201.1%20-%20open%20bugs

LW: Have added an examples folder to the repo and a link design pattern example.
... Michael pulled the changes back into the master version.

<jemma> sorry. do I use w3c login to see this buglist?

https://github.com/w3c/aria/blob/master/practices/aria-practices.html

<jemma> thanks

<jamesn> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/practices/aria-practices.html

JN: Doc needs tidying up but we can sort that out later.

Direct link for link pattern https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/practices/aria-practices.html#link

MK: Bug relating to tabindex.

JN: Is that needed?

LW: Legacy from when ARIA originally re-defined tabindex. Not needed now it's part of HTML5?

JN: It's something we'd need to add to most patterns?

MK: With more detail for complex widgets.

JN: Do we need it for simple widgets though? Should be consistent whichever way we go though.

MK: Two things - what happens to activate the link, other is focusing on the link.

JN: Don't think we need to define what happens when the link is activated.

BG: Agree.

MK: We need to raise a bug against ARIA 1.1 then?
... The spec says the author is responsible for handling functionality.

BG: Think there is value in mentioning the author needs to provide functionality/handle focus.

MK: If link is only for base languages without a native link, we might say this design pattern shouldn't be used if writing in HTML?

JN: Don't agree.
... Retro-fitting is one use case.

MK: Have seen people use the APG, then add roles where they're not needed.
... Will change bug to reflect this discussion.

JN: Could just explain that whenever possible use a native element.

BG: Agree.

MK: We could add a standard cautionary note to indicate it's better to use native elements where possible.

BG: Keep it simple.

+1

<jamesn> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/enter_bug.cgi?alias=&assigned_to=mattking%40us.ibm.com&attach_text=&blocked=&bug_file_loc=http%3A%2F%2F&bug_severity=normal&bug_status=NEW&comment=&component=Practices&contenttypeentry=&contenttypemethod=autodetect&contenttypeselection=text%2Fplain&data=&dependson=&description=&form_name=enter_bug&keywords=&maketemplate=Remember%20values%20as%20bookmarkable%20template&op_sys=Windows%20NT&priority=P2&product=ARIA&qa_contact=

<jamesn> &rep_platform=PC&short_desc=&target_milestone=---&version=1.1

<jamesn> http://tinyurl.com/l7dthzh

JN: Suggest we keep advice simple... "When using HTML use the native <a> element and do not use role="link"".
... Can wordsmith later.

<mattking> Caution: If creating HTML, it is recommended that an anchor tag be used instead of the link role.

<mattking> Caution: If creating HTML, it is recommended that an anchor element <A> tag be used instead of role="link".

JN: Do we need "Caution"?

MK: Need to call it out.

LW: Can clear it up with the rest of the formatting.

BG: COuld use the wiki feature on Github. Will find a tutorial and post it.

<bgaraventa1979> http://code.tutsplus.com/articles/team-collaboration-with-github--net-29876

JN: Should we revisit using Github issues instead of Bugzilla?

MK: Let's stick with current decision for now.

JN: Will create a practices page and link it from the ARIA wiki homepage on GH.

<jemma> ;-)

MK: Four edits...
... 1. Add cautionary note about using native element.
... 2. Add note about author's handling focus.
... 3. Add note about author's using tabindex.
... 4. Remove shift 510 references.

Checkbox design pattern

JN: Should we separate checkbox out?

MK: One for tristate and one for dual state?
... Dual state first, then could reference it from the tri-state pattern.

BG: Makes sense.

MK: Then add the note about native elements to the dual state, but not for the tri-state.
... Suggest we resolve those two bugs before we spend much more time on this?

LW: Agree.

JN: Is it worth separating out?
... COuld just change the note to say use native unless you need a tri-state/mixed selection.
... There will be duplication.

MK: Could refer back to the dual pattern from the tri-state.

BG: Let's try simple approach first.

MK: Do it for dual state then see where we're at.
... Seems like tabbing should be part of keyboard interaction.

JN: It's specifying the property not the interaction.
... Do we need a different section on focus management?

MK: There is already a section in the doc... Keyboard and structural navigation.

LW: We could do with a really simple statement in the doc - Author's need to a) handle focus and b) handle keyboard interaction.

MK: There are different sorts of patterns.

<jamesn> rrsasgent, make minutes

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Found Scribe: Léonie Watson
Default Present: Matt_King, +1.217.244.aaaa, LJWatson, +1.217.244.aabb, Jemma, Bryan_Garaventa, James_Nurthen
Present: Matthew_King James_Nurthen Léonie_Watson Bryan_Garaventa Jemma
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Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2014/11/07-aria-apg-minutes.html
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