See also: IRC log
<trackbot> Date: 06 November 2014
<scribe> scribenick: jeanne
Detlev: I signed up for 2 that I know what they are about. There are others where I don't know.
<KimPatch> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/Technique_Development_Assignments
JS: Can Detlev point out the ones that are unclear?
detlev: M1: What does this technique aim at beyond the general best practices
KW: Javascript commands for hover and surface touch. The Technique was to discuss that specifically.
Detlev: So this would be separate from using CSS to highlight?
KW: That is something we need
more clarity from WCAG about what should be separate
techniques. That can be incorportated into another technique,
but should it be separate?
... same thing with Reading Order, Touch and Keyboard Access.
We need more clarity.
... The deadline is rapidly approaching -- 18 Nov. We want to
have the most important on the schedule for next week.
KP: Who has techniques that will be ready for next week.
Detlev: M4 is done today. there is a draft to discuss
KP: Does anyone want to sign up for anything else?
KW: If you are struggling or partially done, even if you need some writing help or technical help, let us know so we can draw on the strength of the rest of the group before the deadline.
KP: We have sorted out the existing WCAG techniques into buckets: existing that don't apply, existing that apply without changes, existing that need changes.
<KimPatch> tf/wiki/Subset_of_WCAG_2.0_Techniques_Applicable_to_Mobile_without_Changes_that_need_language_update
KP: Recently, I have been
reviewing Techniques that could be improved with subtle
changes
... After more discussion in the group, I went through and made
suggestions to the first 100 Techniques where a few subtle
changes are needed. E.g., if the example has "laptop" that
implies it doesn't apply to mobile.
[Kim reviews some of the changes from the link above]
<AWK> How short is short enough for G14?
<Joshue> +q to say this looks good.
Detlev: also about sign language video
<Zakim> Joshue, you wanted to say this looks good.
JP: Thanks to all the TF for a lot of work. This is what the WCAG WG wanted to update the Techniques
<Jan> +q to agree with the changes to massage language to remove implicit assumption of desktop/laptop devices
<Jan> -q
KP: The onesmissing from here,
are the ones that we have identified that need more work. THey
are on a different list. I ended at G111. there is more to
do.
... even some of the changes are where laptop is implied.
JO: How about "activating" a link?
KP: I think UAWG found a problem with that.
Detlev: I think activating would cover all kinds of input.
<Joshue> Whatever an appropriate term.
JO: whatever the appropriate term, we can use that.
KP: Whatever the solution was with UAWG, I would like to harmonize with that.
JO: what are the next steps? I have an action to do some of what you have done? I would take a chunk of these?
KP: Is this good enough? If someone in TF finishes this and sends it to WCAG, is it good enough?
JO: Yes, this would be great.
KP: Then WCAG could do the
changes.
... I think we will see patterns.
JO: When will you be finished?
KP: Probably a few weeks.
AWK: A number of these seem easy,
G14 would say: "Use this text instead". To make it even easier
for the TF, WCAG, and the people doing the edits, I would ask
for a pull request.
... G110 are not going to debate some of these. G14, for
example, I don't think I would send it by the WCAG WG.
KP: The wiki is here, and you can make that decision.
AWK: The grammar corrections are good to have.
AT the F2F we were discussing 3 threads and this is one of the threads.
KP: The M techniques are having
more trouble in focusing the direction.
... the Techniques that the TF is changing also need more
direction from WCAG.
<Joshue> +q
KW: What do we put into an existing Technique?
JO: We were having a bigger
discussion in the planning call that are coming out about our
approaches: how we catagorize and how we create
Techniques.
... we may need to separate more techniques by the technology
more
... I'm hoping that WCAG can thrash this out. WCAG is finding
our way, identifying gaps, review approaches.
... tie in more with IndieUI, UAWG in a more cohesive
manner.
... we don't want to upend MATF work, but we are finding our
way.
KW: I don't know where we are
going, and it is stalling the work here. Everytime I am writing
a Technique, I am blocked from completing it.
... otherwise the work we are doing in the TF is being
redone.
<Alan_Smith> Alan called back in and on IRC
JO: We are aware that it is a problem. We just don't want to create something that has a short shelflife.
KW: We need to figure out where things are going to go and how they will be organized, so that we can figure how they will go forward.
JS: I see the next two weeks for making the Nov 18 deadline
JO: I think the low hanging fruit is the most important. The subtle changes are easier to do.
AWK: We will take whatever work we can have done. It is all useful. It's probably ok since we are amassing a body of knowledge -- a large body of work for mobile. We will probably have a few new techniques, a few minor techniques, some new medium techniques. Is that ok to have a scattered collection of things?
Detlev: I don't think there is a
plan to have a separate section of WCAG for Mobile
Techniques?
... Has that been determined? Some may be questionable, whether
they are merged with existing Techniques?
JO: At the moment, there is a concern with labeling them as mobile techniques, when they may be applicable to other platforms and technologies. I see us rolling them into the canon of techniques, and they would be applicable to mobile.
KW: As far as what is done by the
18th, there is very little that we will be able to push out.
Any time we can get more Techniques out there is useful. We may
have to wait for the following release to say that we have
substantial work for mobile. The wiki is open to everyone so
people can see what is going on.
... especially since there is so much that is under
discussion.
KP: I like what you said about "not explicitly mobile" because everything is rather mixing.
JR: There is not a hard-and-fast division between desktop and mobile. It's a continuum. I am ok with having it in one group, but there are small screen and devices with sensors that should be called out.
<jon_avila> Agreed that screen size and touch events are more important than mobile specific
<jon_avila> +1
<Joshue> +q
<kw> +1
MS: We have skipped over the
interaction model. touch an gesture and speech. We should be
looking at "what is the interaction model for that
thing?"
... and not calling it out as mobile or desktop.
JO: It's still an early discussion and we haven't fleshed it out.
<jon_avila> Touch criteria could apply to kiosk even though it isn't mobile.
JO: on Monday we will be discussing it in more detail.
<Joshue> -q
JA: How we communicate that to the public that are expecting Mobile TEchnques. We need to share that thought process with the community.
<jon_avila> Another category is bandwidth
Detlev: WCAG is a tremendous body of information and it can be off-putting. we need to have a way to filter it or focus it for specific design needs
Brent: We don't what will be
coming up after mobile, so having something more generic.
Interaction model is a good way to go. A variety of apps
(coming from a deaf perspective). Things are more creative
today. How you design with Flash, how you interact with
devices, including interaction with devices that are coming
up.
... we have to make sure that things are applicable.
KP: Actionserver is software that
allows you to control your desktop with your mobile
device.
... there are keyboards that can connect to any device. It puts
the keyboard everywhere and the touchscreen everywhere.
AWK: It's related to the Second Screen question -- connecting a device that has some reason or ocnvenience to use rather than the original screen.
KW: We are talking about structuring about interaction, but we have discussed this with UAWG. When people are looking at it from a device approach. But there is also an approach that is inclusive of specific disabilities, such as cognitive, or screenreader. We need to keep in mind the end-user.
<jon_avila> +1 to Mike
MS: These are really good points. I appreciate the comment how we present this to the community and how we organize it and present it. We discussed applying tags to the Techniques, that will allow people to filter in multiple ways.
<AWK> Re: Tagging, as mentioned by Mike - agree, this was what we discussed at WCAG F2F on Sunday and generally liked
<Detlev> +1
<Brent> +1
<Jan> +q to say we should have a WCAG-mobile note of some kind
Alan: it sounds like the focus of the next release is to include mobile in WCAG as an accessible device for accessibility. Many folks see that mobile is not appliable to the WCAG guidelines. We need a clear definition that mobile will be applicable.
<jon_avila> Would already apply to mobile web. Can be applied to native mobile apps.
Alan: Just because we don't have
all the Techniques written, we need the explicit statement that
WCAG 2.0 apply to mobile. Industry is looking for it.
... It needs to be clearly stated.
+1 to Alan
JR: The communication side is
very important. We need a note. Repeat some of the comments
from this call. The example of touch screen kiosk is important.
People want standards for kiosks.
... but I can see people asking "where are the Techniques for
my language"
Alan: How do we go about Techniquing everything? Maybe all you can say is that it is in the works.
KW: I think we will be figuring it out, and we will have more information next week. Everyone's points are very good and need to be considered for moving forward.
<Zakim> Jan, you wanted to say we should have a WCAG-mobile note of some kind
KP: Everyone, please answer the survey for next week.
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.138 of Date: 2013-04-25 13:59:11 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/ KW: The ones / KP: The ones/ Succeeded: s/other techniques/other platforms and technologies/ Succeeded: s/rragent, make minutes// Found ScribeNick: jeanne Inferring Scribes: jeanne Default Present: Alan_Smith, Joshue, Kim_Patch, Jeanne, +1.978.760.aaaa, AWK, Detlev, kw, Brent, +1.408.425.aabb, Jan, jon_avila Present: Andrew(AWK) AlanS Brent Detlev Jan Jeanne Jon_Avila Joshue Kim KathyW MikeS Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-mobile-a11y-tf/2014Nov/0000.html Found Date: 06 Nov 2014 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2014/11/06-mobile-a11y-minutes.html People with action items:[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]