See also: IRC log
<trackbot> Date: 09 October 2014
<janina> trackbot, next item
<trackbot> Sorry, janina, I don't understand ' trackbot, next item'. Please refer to <http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc> for help.
<scribe> scribe: JF
JS: PF have a clear list of who
we need to meet with at TPAC, HTML and SVG of note
... PF will join the HTML WG in your larger room
<paulc> https://www.w3.org/wiki/HTML/wg/2014-10-Agenda#Agenda
will discuss SVG - graphics taxonomy
(there is a TF in the works for that now)
<Judy> [judy looks fwd to seeing that]
alos wish to follow up on the need for event numeration - plan to present requirements and use-cases and ask for solutions
previous concerns over security have impacted this discussion in the past - so plan is to ask for solutions rather than say what we need
afternoon Thrusday - PF will be meeting with D-Pub after lunch, then after break return to larger HTML WG to present our discussions
one key topic is expansion of ARIA roles for document mark-up
subsequent to that, we will be having a discussion around testing
there is also a need for multiple-target needs for an enhanced longdesc or described-at
<janina> Resource: TPAC 2014
<janina> HTML-WG: https://www.w3.org/wiki/HTML/wg/2014-10-Agenda
<janina> PF-WG: http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/meetings/tp2014
<janina> Main Page: http://www.w3.org/2014/11/TPAC/
JS: there may be other discussions - media (John and Mark S will be meeting with Web on TV folks on Monday.
There may also be other discussions in HTML WG
there is also a session with WebApps - they have been working with IndieUI
PC: SVG meeting times may need to be fine-tuned
RS: there may be a need for more time than originally envisioned
[discussion around meeting times]
JB: Final registration numbers are suggesting a large turn-out, so there is some adjusting that needs to happen
PC: looking at PF et al to manage the meeting times
JS: the news is, no news yet
JB: there is a draft decision in
progress.
... expect to see it soon
JS: there are some additional
bugs that need to be filed, need to get that done. Plan to
happen before the next meeting.
... Steve F has stepped down as editor, there is a proposed
replacement
waiting for movement there
PC: there has been some off-line
discussion, including why is it taking so long? Appears to be
blocked by the longdesc decision
... trying to understand what's next. Chairs looking to
"unblock it"
JB: there are some dicsussion on
this already. Different TF participants have concerns on moving
forward without the longdesc decision addressed
... depending on how that goes, there may be some significant
changes required to the Alt Text Document
... could create some misunderstanding to release it as
is
... the document is a TF document, and request that the WG
respect that, and allow this to follow its course
JF: mostly to plus one Judy
PC: Aware of the discussion & history
if there are issues, then file the bugs
PC: keeping this in limbo does no-one any favors
<Zakim> liam, you wanted to object to a heartbeat as-is very strongly as it could be very damaging, it basically contradicts longdesc, and yes there are bugs filed
LIam: object strongly to publish this as is, due to issues around the longdesc sensitivity
This is bad and damaging to publish this with wrong info
JF: +1 to Liam
<paulc> Links to the bugs?
JS: suggest that we may in fact
be past the blockage now.
... whichever way the Director goes with the longdesc doc will
have an impact on the ALt Text document.
<liam> I filed https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=26868 26869 and 26870 which are deliberately fairly high-level
PC: have not replaced the editor,
gaterhing data on what we should do next
... believe we should keep Steve's name on the doc as
editor
<ShaneM> tied up on another call. I have volunteered to take on whatever additional editing is needed.
<ShaneM> (have also volunteered)
JB: this needs to be handled at a coordination level
JS: history of this doc tells us
the original reason that the work on this document started is
no longer there. It was to off-set some poor information in the
earlier HTML 5 document, and it has had an impact on the HJTML5
spec - it succeeded in doing what it set out to do
... now we need to ensure that 2 W3C documents are in sync, and
not saying different things
PC: are there bugs there?
JS: nont filed yet, but do not anticipate this being a long process
CS: perhaps ask WCAG if they want to take up the Best Practices as WCAG Techniques
JB: the content of this document actually spans several different resources - including WCAG Techniques - there are also types of "tutorial" content. Don't want to lose what Steve has contributed there
<paulc> If it is true that this document serves a significant different role than the current WD at http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/WD-html-alt-techniques-20121025/ then that is a strong reason to get a new document on the TR page.
JB: thus it doesn't directly map just to WCAG - spans multiple viewpoints. Strong opinion that this document be maintained by WAI groups in the future
<paulc> And I keep hearing that there are more and more yet defined changes to the current document so arguing against a heartbeat now seems wrong.
<janina> Paul, I was trying to say that it serves a different role today than the role for which it was initially created
JB: there is a syncronization
concern, but hope is to address that fairly quickly (after the
longdesc decision)
... moving forward (new techiques, etc.) to also keep all that
sync'd there
<ShaneM> Won't this document need to go through another CfC round if we edit it substantially with longdesc stuff?
JB: the number of changes are small and finite, but unsure if they are all filed as bugs
<paulc> There are no bugs for what Janina referred to.
JS: the original CfC was also flawed
<paulc> Please file the ALL the bugs that describe the work that needs to be done on this document.
PC: heard Liam's concern about 2
documents that are in conflict - but now hearing that there are
multiple new content to be added
... don't understand why a heartbeat cannot be published
now
JB: this has been explained in multiple ways - the TF feels very strongly here to not do this, don't understand why that cannot be respected?
PC: can do that. people need to
file the bugs and indicate what needs to be done
... concern is that this document will not be published even
into December
JB: have already previewed the EO
work, so there should not be a huge impediment there
... this TF has stated multiple times what we believe is the
most prudent path
PC: Can respect this if TF can clearly define the bar that needs to be met
JB: clarity is the dependance on the longdesc decision
JS: I would say that that
represents 90% of that
... however if we end up with enough significant changes there
may be a need for another CfC
JB: Makes sense to look at this after the bugs are filed
JS: What needs to happen next is on Janina (me) - Q: did the canvas group meet? What needs to happen next?
<paulc> See http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-canvas-api/2014OctDec/0000.html
PC: believe this is being handled
by the canvas TF
... next meeting on 10/10
<paulc> Agenda for Canvas TF meeting 10/10 - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-canvas-api/2014OctDec/0010.html
JS: have reviewed minutes going
back to June, looking at what would constitute HTML.next
... ASking Cyns about Menus - will we have time to look at this
before or at TPAC?
CS: unfortunately no
JF: ideas and discussion on transcripts
<paulc> TPAC Ad hoc meetings: https://www.w3.org/wiki/TPAC2014/ad-hoc-meetings
PC: there is a wiki page for ad-hoc meetins at TPAC
<paulc> See TPAC home page: http://www.w3.org/2014/11/TPAC/#participation
PC: there does not seem to be a direct link off of the TPAC page, but use the link(s) provided
<liam> [ list of tpac registrants at https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35125/TPAC2014/registrants ]
Select participation and under the AC meetings and dinner, there is a section for ad-hoc meetings
JS: next items owned by Chaals -
accesskey and web-payments
... that leaves footnotes - expect that will come from
D-pub
... let them help lay out requirements
... seem to be the key items
JF: David MacDonald and I have had a few brief discussions around footnotes
Liam: dpub community has concerns around footnotes as well - need to know what kind of link it is
JS: any other comments?
... adjourned.
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