HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference

25 Sep 2014

See also: IRC log


Rich, Adrian
David, MarkS


<trackbot> Date: 25 September 2014

Identify Scribe http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/index.php?title=Scribe_List

<paulc> On a very bad hotel wireless connection. Staying on mute.

<David> scribe: David

TPAC 2014

TPAC... no news that's new, made progress... expect to be done soon

<paulc> okay re TPAC plans

JA: hotel sold out... w3c block gone, more expensive for others

JS: nearby hotels *may* have better rates.
... W3C requests anyone moving hotels who is in w3C block, let us know so we can get them back in the block

<paulc> Are there rooms at higher rates at the Marriott?

<liam> [yes]

Into the 300$ range outside the block

Longdesc CR Progress

JS: no news ... waiting from director's offioce

Our Alt Note http://rawgit.com/w3c/alt-techniques/master/index.html

JS: alt note

C of C, objection to closing work as longdesc moves towards status... i'm concerned we'd have to reopen it, assuming longdesc not stopped by FO

noting about the note status blocking any other rec... is there good reason to push it forward now...

LIUM: i filed bugs that there are use cases that should have Longdesc... bad to publish as is, until longdesc resolved

<JF> +1 for inclusion of @longdesc

<paulc> Would an alternative plan be to publish a heartbeat of this document and then to publish a WG Note later after updating to include a reference to longdesc.

CM: not worried about publishing and reopeing, but we should wait for directors decision, and update if director approves longdesc

JB: agree

<paulc> The latest info on the TR page is http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/WD-html-alt-techniques-20121025/

JB: concerned it looks like comprehensive spec, but doesn't some kinds of complex images, which could be represented in the document... so agree to wait for director

PC: could publish as heartbeat... it's approaching 2nd anniversary so needs some movement

<ShaneM> +1 to push a heartbeat.

PC: editors can publish heartbeat without permission

JB: agree, but let's wait for decision... might just a few tweaks be needed or large revision, let's consider HB after we're not guessing

<Zakim> chaals, you wanted to suggest a heartbeat makes sense

CM: HB makes a lot of sense, and hopefully have it fixed and ready

JS: not a note yet because needs to be perfected... are we stirring the pot with a HB...

JB: i'm ok with a heartbeat... but not as a note

<paulc> Someone should file a bug for the "image description problems" and then the SOTD can point to the outstanding bugs

JB: if we do a HB, we'd need to publish our concerns that some might be changed soon, and that there might be other image types not included

CM: I think we should publish HB

<paulc> There are a LOT of changes in the document that is very different that the 2012 WD.

<Zakim> liam, you wanted to prefer not to do a heartbeat until after the FO

Liam: don't want to publish without clear statement about the status of longdesc

<paulc> Remember that we had Formal Objections about this document being on Recommendation Track that were withdrawn.

<JF> +1 to support Liam's point

PC: simple rule, publish early and often
... we had formal Obj on this going to rec track...
... it's much better than what we have now

<janina> acl p

<JF> +Q

John: Normally agree with PC, but this is so religious, about longdesc, we should hold

JS: how about HB in early october

HTML Process Tweaks Going Forward? http://darobin.github.io/after5/

JS: it is going on... just noting it

Identify Chair and Scribe for the next TF teleconference http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/index.php?title=Scribe_List

JS: invitation to participate in discussion on WG list

other business

JS: i don't have summary of various conversation to 5.1 items... been busy with PF... '

<MarkS> scribe: MarkS

DM: I would like to see progress on dealing with footnotes, navigation to and from the reference
... difficult to do for screen reader users.
... there are arguments against it i.e. we already have links to handle this.
... this is also relevant to ePub

JS: have you looked at ePub's handling of footnotes?
... also, what specifically is the problem for screen reader uses? is there overlap with other users?
... there is a problem if the beginning and end of the note is not clearly delineated with markup

<Zakim> liam, you wanted to note that there has been footnote conversations in digital publishing IG and in CSS, some similarities with longdesc

<JF> +Q

LQ: two kinds of issues with footnotes that are not satisfied with just links. A sighted user can see at a glance if its a bibliographic reference, or substantive
... ebooks are struggling with this
... nice to have on the same page if the room is there, and there are no flow issues
... in ebook readers, ePub, there will need to be a way of marking what type of footnote it is
... a role attribute on an aside element, or some other solution

JS: so there is lack of support for good handling in HTML5, if ePub formally adopts HTML5 as a solution

LQ: also for those who use HTML5 CSS in their print publishing workflow

JF: we deal with footnotes a lot. some people use special characters to mark a note, double arrows for instance.

<liam> [CSS already has asterisk, dagger, obelisk, section mark, double bar counting sequence]

JF: also multiple links to a single footnote. makes it hard to return back to where you originally referenced the footnote
... was it the first, second or third reference
... the formal structure of legal documents make it very difficult to solve this issue creatively

DM: john and and I can brainstorm more on this

JS: this isn't just an accessibility thing. I think we need to involve others in addressing this issue. This would be good for TPAC, ePub will be there and will be meeting with PF to talk about accessibility
... sounds like this should be taken up by us, HTML WG and ePub. TPAC would be ideal

<JF> +Q

JF: so david and I should get together and put together a discussion paper to kickoff a discussion at TPAC

JS: that would be very valuable

<David> phone

JF: we have a good idea what the issues are so I don't think it will take us long to do

<David> JS: Thanks David for the suggestion, David and John will get together to present discussion paper on footnotes


<David> MS: Rich drew up a paper, I've written test for 12 issues

<David> MS: we'll have more for you next week, the is a new meeting time for the canvas, TF, Friday 3pm eastern

<David> JS: other business. media subteam needs to get together, have comments, and Expect nore for WAI EO

<David> ws/nore/more

<David> 10EST monday, will meet to discuss comments, will put out notice...

<David> next week Shane will Scribe

Summary of Action Items

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WARNING: No "Present: ... " found!
Possibly Present: CM Cynthia_Shelly DM David David_MacDonald David__ IPcaller IanPouncey JA JB JF JS John Joshue Judy LIUM LQ Liam MS MarkS Microsoft P0 PC ShaneM cabanier chaals hober html-a11y inserted janina joanie left newtron paulc sivoais trackbot
You can indicate people for the Present list like this:
        <dbooth> Present: dbooth jonathan mary
        <dbooth> Present+ amy

Regrets: Rich Adrian
Found Date: 25 Sep 2014
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2014/09/25-html-a11y-minutes.html
People with action items: 

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