See also: IRC log
<Lisa_Seeman> agenda: this
<Lisa_Seeman> and cognitive function table
<Lisa_Seeman> scribe: Mary_Jo_Mueller
<Lisa_Seeman> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/cognitive-a11y-tf/track/actions/
LS: Page on good and bad practice
will soon be ready to be populated in the wiki
... The URL will be sent to the list when it is ready.
<Lisa_Seeman> ACTION: all add the access stratgies from our user groups to https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/cognitive-a11y-tf/wiki/Techniques_and_Strategies_For_The_Cognitive_and_Learning_Disabilities_Accessibility_Task_Force_(COGA) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/09/22-coga-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Error finding 'all'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/cognitive-a11y-tf/track/users>.
<MichaelC> ackme
<Lisa_Seeman> ACTION: lisa to remind all user groups add the access stratgies from our user groups to https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/cognitive-a11y-tf/wiki/Techniques_and_Strategies_For_The_Cognitive_and_Learning_Disabilities_Accessibility_Task_Force_(COGA) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/09/22-coga-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-47 - Remind all user groups add the access stratgies from our user groups to https://www.w3.org/wai/pf/cognitive-a11y-tf/wiki/techniques_and_strategies_for_the_cognitive_and_learning_disabilities_accessibility_task_force_(coga) [on Lisa Seeman - due 2014-09-29].
DD: Emotion markup is in the wiki for the group to review.
LS: For action 46, the cognitive functions table has been set up.
<Lisa_Seeman> ACTION: lisa to remind all user groups add the thier info to the cognativve tags table [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/09/22-coga-minutes.html#action03]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-48 - Remind all user groups add the thier info to the cognativve tags table [on Lisa Seeman - due 2014-09-29].
LS: Information to go into the table should come from the cognitive disability type analysis pages.
LS: The table should be completed
by the time we publish our next group of pages so it can be
included. Targeting next week to have the table filled
in.
... We are separating out the background research into a
separate document on user research.
... For the first working draft we'd like to to have the ADHD
information and the completed table as well.
SK: The ADHD group has not been able to meet and will work on this together via email.
NM: The ADHD is a draft and we could go with it and accept comments on it as such. There is a lot of literature out there so there could be more information added.
LS: We need to get the information into the WIKI, if possible.
NM: Will try to get the draft information into the wiki by the Sept 24 deadline.
<Lisa_Seeman> ACTION: Niel to put add contribution in the wiki [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/09/22-coga-minutes.html#action04]
<trackbot> Error finding 'Niel'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/cognitive-a11y-tf/track/users>.
<Lisa_Seeman> ACTION: maryJo and Susannk to review and identify todo action from ADHA contribution in the wiki [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/09/22-coga-minutes.html#action05]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-49 - And susannk to review and identify todo action from adha contribution in the wiki [on Mary Jo Mueller - due 2014-09-29].
<Lisa_Seeman> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-cognitive-a11y-tf/2014Sep/0029.html"
<ea> can Joseph and I just add that we are meant to be working on tags for non-vocal but all in column could apply or not depending on the individual.
<ea> oops sorry missed column one!
JR: Sent note to the cognitive list about the CAPTCHA analysis of cognitive difficulties with CAPTCHAs. Looking for review and suggestions on this draft.
<JohnRochford> Correction: John is asking for review and suggestions on 2-factor authentiation. See 9/14 email message.
LS: May be better to separate the
issues to show which difficulties are associated with what
level of cognitive function. Not all of these are applicable to
all use cases/cognitive disabilities.
... Visual discrimination issues will experience some of these
difficulties, while someone with auditory discrimination issues
will experience others.
... The PF working group is working to update the
recommendations on CAPTCHAs so we are hoping this can influence
that work.
KH: If you have different cognitive profiles, a different CAPTCHA could be presented based on that profile that would probably better for that user.
LS: CAPTCHA could present a
different question depending on the cognitive abilities of the
user, like if they have good long-term memory it might be best
to ask a question about who is the current president.
... A general knowledge question may be good for certain people
rather than questions about something that requires good short
term memory.
NM: We want to make sure our advice doesn't become too unwieldy, so it is not ignored by web developers.
<Zakim> ddahl, you wanted to say that I think there needs be a way to automatically generate these kinds of questions so that there isn't a finite set that could be circumvented by an
KH: We could give examples or choices for what would be the best type of questions for each target group or population.
LS: Today we have visual and
auditory CAPTCHAs but both are not very easy. Wonder if the use
of generalized questions would also be better for people who
are blind.
... Don't know if someone capable of using a screen reader or
refreshable braille display would have more trouble answering
general questions. Since use of these AT's is fairly complex,
those users may not have issues with a general question.
JR: The questions would likely have to be tuned per culture or country.
<ea> what if the automatic translation of the question Captcha is not 100%
NM: Biometrics, personal SPI chips, etc. will move the validation forward like what Apple is using for payments. A person's phone can transmit the token quite easily.
KH: The banking industry is taking up this more and more, and with the increase in use of wearables the information could be transmitted and remove the need to use a CAPTCHa.
<Lisa_Seeman> ACTION: lisa to reach out to james about Biometrics, personal SPI chip token as alterntive to 2 step solutions and capture [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/09/22-coga-minutes.html#action06]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-50 - Reach out to james about biometrics, personal spi chip token as alterntive to 2 step solutions and capture [on Lisa Seeman - due 2014-09-29].
<neilmilliken> nfcring John McClear
NM: There's also the crypto ring.
<ea> Just reading some issues with NFC tags http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/how-secure-is-nfc-tech2.htm
LS: This could be a good long-term solution to CAPTCHA.
LS: On the main PF list there was
a discussion on a new ARIA attribute called accessible help.
There was a discussion the previous week about somehting
similar too.
... There is a problem where tooltips are being overloaded with
too much information like help.
... Would like to change the name to screen reader help, and
have the accessible help used for general help, so it is also
applicable to people with cognitive disabilities.
... Would like to have these be discrete from each other, with
separate tags.
... Some user groups may need help entering their phone number
where others won't. Some users need screen reader help while
others would be confused by that type of help information.
<ea> I agree
JR: Would like to propose a universal design idea - help would be written so everyone could understand, using plain language and possible helpful imagery.
<janina> Need to go to the ARIA call. Bye, all!
LS: The currently proposed accessible help was to cover issues where you give instruction that is only relevant to screen reader users - to help users that can't see and is trying to use a UI element that is fairly complex, such as a complex table.
NM: Agree that accessible help should be more general, and if it is specific to a certain user group it should be called out as being specific to that user group.
JR: If there is a profile associated with each user, then the accessible help could be tuned to that user group.
<ea> what if the user does not want to have it each time
KH: Indie UI may be a way to have
a preference that you do choose to have provided, like coga
help or something with coga attributes and make that available
through a profile.
... WAI-ARIA if it moves on to promote attributes and support
for ATs used for cognitive disabilities could also help with
this situation.
<neilmilliken> I have to drop off now.
LS: There could be user agent preferences or actions to provide this help, like using F1 to bring up this help on demand rather than all of the time.
EA: There isn't anything on
non-vocal in the table yet, and it doesn't have any specific
parameters. You can find users for each of the items in the
table.
... Co-morbidity occurs with 99% of individuals.
<Lisa_Seeman> thanks maryj
<Lisa_Seeman> not working for me iether
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.138 of Date: 2013-04-25 13:59:11 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) No ScribeNick specified. Guessing ScribeNick: MaryJo Found Scribe: Mary_Jo_Mueller Default Present: neilmilliken, +1.512.445.aaaa, Katie_Haritos-Shea, Lisa_Seeman, Mary_Jo_Mueller, +1.508.856.aabb, Michael_Cooper, Debbie_Dahl Present: neilmilliken +1.512.445.aaaa Katie_Haritos-Shea Lisa_Seeman Mary_Jo_Mueller +1.508.856.aabb Michael_Cooper Debbie_Dahl Regrets: Katherine_Deibel Tim_Boland Elle Anthony_Doran WARNING: No meeting title found! You should specify the meeting title like this: <dbooth> Meeting: Weekly Baking Club Meeting WARNING: No meeting chair found! You should specify the meeting chair like this: <dbooth> Chair: dbooth Got date from IRC log name: 22 Sep 2014 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2014/09/22-coga-minutes.html People with action items: all lisa maryjo niel susannk[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]