15:18:35 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #coga
15:18:35 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/09/22-coga-irc
15:18:43 <Lisa_Seeman> zakim, this will be  WAI_CogTF
15:18:43 <Zakim> ok, Lisa_Seeman; I see WAI_CogTF()12:00PM scheduled to start in 42 minutes
15:18:52 <Lisa_Seeman> regrets: Katherine Deibel,Tim Boland, Elle, Anthony Doran,
15:24:08 <Lisa_Seeman>  agenda: this
15:24:10 <Lisa_Seeman>  agenda+  review of agenda
15:24:11 <Lisa_Seeman>  agenda+   review of actions - including identifying user strategies
15:24:13 <Lisa_Seeman> and cognitive function table
15:24:14 <Lisa_Seeman>  agenda+  user groups update (ADHD, other)
15:24:16 <Lisa_Seeman>  agenda+ securities review from Jon http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-cognitive-a11y-tf/2014Sep/0029.html
15:24:17 <Lisa_Seeman>  agenda+ layered help or role based help
15:24:19 <Lisa_Seeman>  agenda+  approval of other new content, http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-cognitive-a11y-tf/2014Aug/0045.html, http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-cognitive-a11y-tf/2014Aug/0044.html
15:24:20 <Lisa_Seeman> agenda+  editing github
15:24:22 <Lisa_Seeman>  agenda+  Next FTF
15:24:23 <Lisa_Seeman>  agenda+ How will we receive comments?
15:24:25 <Lisa_Seeman>  agenda+ be done
15:52:44 <Zakim> WAI_CogTF()12:00PM has now started
15:52:51 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
15:59:12 <neilmilliken> neilmilliken has joined #coga
16:00:43 <Zakim> +neilmilliken
16:00:52 <Zakim> + +1.512.445.aaaa
16:01:02 <Zakim> +Katie_Haritos-Shea
16:01:02 <Lisa_Seeman> zakim, [IPcaller] is me
16:01:04 <Zakim> +Lisa_Seeman; got it
16:01:30 <Zakim> +Mary_Jo_Mueller
16:02:07 <Zakim> + +1.508.856.aabb
16:02:17 <ddahl> ddahl has joined #coga
16:02:37 <MaryJo> MaryJo has joined #coga
16:02:56 <JohnRochford> JohnRochford has joined #coga
16:02:57 <Zakim> +??P7
16:03:09 <Lisa_Seeman> zakim, who's here?
16:03:09 <Zakim> On the phone I see Lisa_Seeman, neilmilliken, +1.512.445.aaaa, Katie_Haritos-Shea, Mary_Jo_Mueller, +1.508.856.aabb, Michael_Cooper (muted)
16:03:11 <Zakim> On IRC I see JohnRochford, MaryJo, ddahl, neilmilliken, RRSAgent, Zakim, janina, Lisa_Seeman, MichaelC, trackbot
16:04:09 <MichaelC> ack me
16:04:24 <Zakim> +Debbie_Dahl
16:04:28 <MichaelC> zakim, aaaa is Susann_Keohane
16:04:28 <Zakim> +Susann_Keohane; got it
16:04:41 <Susann_Keohane> Susann_Keohane has joined #coga
16:04:58 <Susann_Keohane> zakim, aacc is me
16:04:58 <Zakim> sorry, Susann_Keohane, I do not recognize a party named 'aacc'
16:05:34 <Lisa_Seeman> scribe: Mary_Jo_Mueller
16:05:42 <Lisa_Seeman>  zakim, next item
16:05:42 <Zakim> agendum 1. "review of agenda" taken up [from Lisa_Seeman]
16:07:10 <Zakim> +Janina
16:08:10 <Lisa_Seeman>  zakim, next item
16:08:10 <Zakim> agendum 2. "review of actions - including identifying user strategies" taken up [from Lisa_Seeman]
16:08:24 <Lisa_Seeman> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/cognitive-a11y-tf/track/actions/
16:08:37 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
16:09:16 <MaryJo> LS: Page on good and bad practice will soon be ready to be populated in the wiki
16:10:06 <MaryJo> LS: The URL will be sent to the list when it is ready.
16:10:13 <Lisa_Seeman> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/cognitive-a11y-tf/wiki/Techniques_and_Strategies_For_The_Cognitive_and_Learning_Disabilities_Accessibility_Task_Force_(COGA)
16:10:28 <ea> ea has joined #coga
16:11:00 <Zakim> -Janina
16:11:12 <richardschwerdtfeger> richardschwerdtfeger has joined #coga
16:11:23 <Lisa_Seeman> action: all add the access stratgies from our user groups to https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/cognitive-a11y-tf/wiki/Techniques_and_Strategies_For_The_Cognitive_and_Learning_Disabilities_Accessibility_Task_Force_(COGA)
16:11:23 <trackbot> Error finding 'all'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/cognitive-a11y-tf/track/users>.
16:11:34 <Zakim> +Rich_Schwerdtfeger
16:11:52 <MichaelC> ackme
16:11:53 <MichaelC> ack me
16:12:15 <Zakim> + +1.804.749.aacc
16:12:19 <Lisa_Seeman> action: lisa to remind all user groups add the access stratgies from our user groups to https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/cognitive-a11y-tf/wiki/Techniques_and_Strategies_For_The_Cognitive_and_Learning_Disabilities_Accessibility_Task_Force_(COGA)
16:12:19 <trackbot> Created ACTION-47 - Remind all user groups add the access stratgies from our user groups to https://www.w3.org/wai/pf/cognitive-a11y-tf/wiki/techniques_and_strategies_for_the_cognitive_and_learning_disabilities_accessibility_task_force_(coga) [on Lisa Seeman - due 2014-09-29].
16:13:06 <Zakim> +Janina
16:13:21 <Zakim> +Joseph_O´Conno
16:14:07 <MaryJo> DD: Emotion markup is in the wiki for the group to review.
16:15:30 <MaryJo> LS: For action 46, the cognitive functions table has been set up.
16:15:40 <Lisa_Seeman> action: lisa to remind all user groups add the thier info to the cognativve tags table
16:15:40 <trackbot> Created ACTION-48 - Remind all user groups add the thier info to the cognativve tags table [on Lisa Seeman - due 2014-09-29].
16:16:11 <MaryJo> LS: Information to go into the table should come from the cognitive disability type analysis pages.
16:16:58 <Lisa_Seeman>  zakim, next item
16:16:58 <Zakim> agendum 3. "user groups update (ADHD, other)" taken up [from Lisa_Seeman]
16:17:21 <MaryJo> LS: The table should be completed by the time we publish our next group of pages so it can be included.  Targeting next week to have the table filled in.
16:17:39 <Zakim> -Janina
16:17:52 <MaryJo> LS: We are separating out the background research into a separate document on user research.
16:18:54 <Zakim> +Janina
16:19:42 <MaryJo> LS: For the first working draft we'd like to to have the ADHD information and the completed table as well.
16:20:08 <Zakim> -Janina
16:20:25 <MaryJo> SK: The ADHD group has not been able to meet and will work on this together via email.
16:21:42 <MaryJo> NM: The ADHD is a draft and we could go with it and accept comments on it as such. There is a lot of literature out there so there could be more information added.
16:22:04 <MaryJo> LS: We need to get the information into the WIKI, if possible.
16:22:30 <MaryJo> NM: Will try to get the draft information into the wiki by the Sept 24 deadline.
16:23:18 <Lisa_Seeman>  zakim, next item
16:23:18 <Zakim> agendum 4. "securities review from Jon http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-cognitive-a11y-tf/2014Sep/0029.html" taken up [from Lisa_Seeman]
16:23:43 <Lisa_Seeman> action: Niel to put add contribution in the wiki
16:23:43 <trackbot> Error finding 'Niel'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/cognitive-a11y-tf/track/users>.
16:24:27 <Zakim> -[IPcaller]
16:24:45 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
16:25:16 <Lisa_Seeman> action: maryJo and Susannk to review and identify todo action from ADHA contribution in the wiki
16:25:16 <trackbot> Created ACTION-49 - And susannk to review and identify todo action from adha contribution in the wiki [on Mary Jo Mueller - due 2014-09-29].
16:25:59 <Lisa_Seeman>  http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-cognitive-a11y-tf/2014Sep/0029.html"
16:26:18 <Lisa_Seeman> q+
16:26:32 <ea> can Joseph and I just add that we are meant to be working on tags for non-vocal but all in column could apply or not depending on the individual.
16:26:56 <Lisa_Seeman> q?
16:26:58 <ea> oops sorry missed column one!
16:27:24 <MaryJo> JR: Sent note to the cognitive list about the CAPTCHA analysis of cognitive difficulties with CAPTCHAs. Looking for review and suggestions on this draft.
16:27:29 <Zakim> -Rich_Schwerdtfeger
16:28:14 <JohnRochford> Correction: John is asking for review and suggestions on 2-factor authentiation. See 9/14 email message.
16:28:54 <MaryJo> LS: May be better to separate the issues to show which difficulties are associated with what level of cognitive function. Not all of these are applicable to all use cases/cognitive disabilities.
16:29:52 <MaryJo> LS: Visual discrimination issues will experience some of these difficulties, while someone with auditory discrimination issues will experience others.
16:30:19 <Lisa_Seeman> ack lisa
16:31:52 <MaryJo> LS: The PF working group is working to update the recommendations on CAPTCHAs so we are hoping this can influence that work.
16:32:54 <MaryJo> KH: If you have different cognitive profiles, a different CAPTCHA could be presented based on that profile that would probably better for that user.
16:34:21 <MaryJo> LS: CAPTCHA could present a different question depending on the cognitive abilities of the user, like if they have good long-term memory it might be best to ask a question about who is the current president.
16:36:03 <MaryJo> LS: A general knowledge question may be good for certain people rather than questions about something that requires good short term memory.
16:38:17 <MaryJo> NM: We want to make sure our advice doesn't become too unwieldy, so it is not ignored by web developers.
16:38:48 <ddahl> q+ to say that I think there needs be a way to automatically generate these kinds of questions so that there isn't a finite set that could be circumvented by an algorithm.
16:39:06 <Lisa_Seeman> q+
16:39:52 <ddahl> ack me
16:39:52 <Zakim> ddahl, you wanted to say that I think there needs be a way to automatically generate these kinds of questions so that there isn't a finite set that could be circumvented by an
16:39:55 <Zakim> ... algorithm.
16:40:32 <MaryJo> KH: We could give examples or choices for what would be the best type of questions for each target group or population.
16:40:53 <Zakim> -Joseph_O´Conno
16:41:44 <MaryJo> LS: Today we have visual and auditory CAPTCHAs but both are not very easy.  Wonder if the use of generalized questions would also be better for people who are blind.
16:43:45 <MaryJo> LS: Don't know if someone capable of using a screen reader or refreshable braille display would have more trouble answering general questions. Since use of these AT's is fairly complex, those users may not have issues with a general question.
16:44:37 <MaryJo> JR: The questions would likely have to be tuned per culture or country.
16:44:44 <ea> what if the automatic translation of the question Captcha is not 100%
16:45:34 <neilmilliken> q+
16:45:36 <Zakim> +??P9
16:45:43 <janina> zakim, ??P9 is me
16:45:43 <Zakim> +janina; got it
16:45:49 <Lisa_Seeman> ack me
16:47:11 <Lisa_Seeman> ack n
16:47:22 <Lisa_Seeman> ack k
16:47:25 <MaryJo> NM: Biometrics, personal SPI chips, etc. will move the validation forward like what Apple is using for payments.  A person's phone can transmit the token quite easily.
16:48:47 <MaryJo> KH: The banking industry is taking up this more and more, and with the increase in use of wearables the information could be transmitted and remove the need to use a CAPTCHa.
16:49:44 <Lisa_Seeman> action: lisa to reach out to james about Biometrics, personal SPI chip token as alterntive to 2 step solutions and capture
16:49:44 <trackbot> Created ACTION-50 - Reach out to james about biometrics, personal spi chip token as alterntive to 2 step solutions and capture [on Lisa Seeman - due 2014-09-29].
16:51:20 <neilmilliken> nfcring John McClear
16:51:26 <MaryJo> NM: There's also the crypto ring.
16:51:49 <ea> Just reading some issues with NFC tags http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/how-secure-is-nfc-tech2.htm
16:52:17 <MaryJo> LS: This could be a good long-term solution to CAPTCHA.
16:52:27 <Lisa_Seeman>  zakim, next item
16:52:27 <Zakim> I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, Lisa_Seeman
16:52:27 <MaryJo> zakim, next item
16:52:29 <Zakim> I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, MaryJo
16:52:36 <Lisa_Seeman> q?
16:52:43 <Lisa_Seeman> ack kat
16:52:46 <Lisa_Seeman>  zakim, next item
16:52:46 <Zakim> agendum 5. "layered help or role based help" taken up [from Lisa_Seeman]
16:53:42 <MaryJo> LS: On the main PF list there was a discussion on a new ARIA attribute called accessible help.  There was a discussion the previous week about somehting similar too.
16:54:02 <MaryJo> LS: There is a problem where tooltips are being overloaded with too much information like help.
16:54:41 <MaryJo> LS: Would like to change the name to screen reader help, and have the accessible help used for general help, so it is also applicable to people with cognitive disabilities.
16:55:28 <MaryJo> LS: Would like to have these be discrete from each other, with separate tags.
16:56:17 <MaryJo> LS: Some user groups may need help entering their phone number where others won't. Some users need screen reader help while others would be confused by that type of help information.
16:56:35 <JohnRochford> q+
16:57:02 <Lisa_Seeman> ack jo
16:57:29 <ea> I agree
16:57:29 <MaryJo> JR: Would like to propose a universal design idea - help would be written so everyone could understand, using plain language and possible helpful imagery.
16:57:35 <neilmilliken> q+
16:57:49 <Lisa_Seeman> ack neil
16:59:22 <JohnRochford> q+
16:59:48 <janina> Need to go to the ARIA call. Bye, all!
16:59:53 <Zakim> -janina
16:59:53 <MaryJo> LS: The currently proposed accessible help was to cover issues where you give instruction that is only relevant to screen reader users - to help users that can't see and is trying to use a UI element that is fairly complex, such as a complex table.
17:00:51 <MaryJo> NM: Agree that accessible help should be more general, and if it is specific to a certain user group it should be called out as being specific to that user group.
17:01:52 <MaryJo> JR: If there is a profile associated with each user, then the accessible help could be tuned to that user group.
17:03:22 <ea> what if the user does not want to have it each time
17:03:26 <Lisa_Seeman> ack john
17:03:48 <ddahl> ddahl has left #coga
17:04:06 <Zakim> -Debbie_Dahl
17:04:16 <MaryJo> KH: Indie UI may be a way to have a preference that you do choose to have provided, like coga help or something with coga attributes and make that available through a profile.
17:04:40 <Zakim> -Michael_Cooper
17:05:12 <MaryJo> KH: WAI-ARIA if it moves on to promote attributes and support for ATs used for cognitive disabilities could also help with this situation.
17:05:30 <neilmilliken> I have to drop off now.
17:05:38 <Zakim> -neilmilliken
17:05:50 <ea> q+
17:06:05 <MaryJo> LS: There could be user agent preferences or actions to provide this help, like using F1 to bring up this help on demand rather than all of the time.
17:06:12 <Zakim> -Susann_Keohane
17:06:59 <Lisa_Seeman> ack katie
17:07:56 <MaryJo> EA: There isn't anything on non-vocal in the table yet, and it doesn't have any specific parameters. You can find users for each of the items in the table.
17:08:17 <MaryJo> EA: Co-morbidity occurs with 99% of individuals.
17:08:36 <Zakim> - +1.804.749.aacc
17:09:24 <Zakim> - +1.508.856.aabb
17:09:34 <MaryJo> zakim, bye
17:09:34 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees were neilmilliken, +1.512.445.aaaa, Katie_Haritos-Shea, Lisa_Seeman, Mary_Jo_Mueller, +1.508.856.aabb, Michael_Cooper, Debbie_Dahl,
17:09:34 <Zakim> Zakim has left #coga
17:09:37 <Zakim> ... Susann_Keohane, Janina, [IPcaller], Rich_Schwerdtfeger, +1.804.749.aacc, Joseph_O´Conno
17:09:44 <MaryJo> rrsagent, make minutes
17:09:44 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/09/22-coga-minutes.html MaryJo
17:11:34 <Lisa_Seeman> thanks maryj
17:16:44 <Lisa_Seeman> not working for me iether
17:17:07 <Lisa_Seeman> rrsagent, make logs public
17:17:17 <Lisa_Seeman> rrsagent, create minutes
17:17:17 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/09/22-coga-minutes.html Lisa_Seeman
17:17:30 <Lisa_Seeman> got it :)
17:17:45 <Lisa_Seeman> MaryJo, do you want to send them to the list?
17:18:05 <Lisa_Seeman> tahnsk for scribing