Independent User Interface Task Force Teleconference

17 Sep 2014


See also: IRC log


+Janina_Sajka, Katie_Haritos-Shea, Michael_Cooper, James_Craig, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, Jason_White, Kurosawa
Katie Haritos-Shea


<trackbot> Date: 17 September 2014

<janina> trackbot, start meeting

<trackbot> Meeting: Independent User Interface Task Force Teleconference

<trackbot> Date: 17 September 2014

preview agenda with items from two minutes

<hober> btw, at the css f2f last week, the wg resolved to adopt the color-inverted media query, so it can be dropped from indie ui & referenced

<hober> http://logs.csswg.org/irc.w3.org/css/2014-09-08/#e470801

<janina> Ted, will you be in IRC for awhile? It would be good to capture that after we start minutes

<hober> they're also going to take on high contrast, though there was no agreement in the room of how exactly to do it

<janina> Ted, good news!

<hober> janina: i have to run to a meeting, btu please copy and paste my lines after minuting starts

<janina> OK

<hober> the discussion started at http://logs.csswg.org/irc.w3.org/css/2014-09-08/#e470674

<scribe> Scribe: Katie Haritos-Shea

<scribe> ScribeNick: Ryladog

Editor's Report

JC: Only change, originally the IndieUI was on the window object, and we switched to navigator, but I decided to set it back to window - because..
... Navigator is a singleton, and it doesn't make sense for properties of the singleton to return different values depending who asks for them. So this needs to be on Window.

<jcraig> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-indie-ui/2014Sep/0017.html

JC: Will add email that he sent to list about this

<janina> < hober> btw, at the css f2f last week, the wg resolved to adopt the color-inverted media query, so it can be dropped from indie ui & referenced

<janina> < hober> http://logs.csswg.org/irc.w3.org/css/2014-09-08/#e470801

<janina> < hober> they're also going to take on high contrast, though there was no agreement in the room of how exactly to do it

<janina> < hober> the discussion started at http://logs.csswg.org/irc.w3.org/css/2014-09-08/#e470674

JS: Ted OConnor talked about the CSS F2F
... So I think it is interesting the CSS group is thinking of taking up contrst with inverted colors....so that is interesting

JC: That is good. Did he mention anything other than inverted colors?

JS: Yes High Contrast

JC: It doesn't seem to say that...ok yes it is there, unsure how ot take it on

Checkin with Web Apps' Editing TF

JS: We got regrets from Ted today - The Explainer Doc has now been ssplit up into two documents


JS: Have we heard anything frommm Jason about polyfills?

JC: He gave me what looks to be an implementation of the behavior but it is not really in polyfill form. But I owe him a response

KHS: Welcome Jason!


JC: Jason Kiss used some IndieUi components but it needs some polyfill stuff - or I need to make another stab at it. I am not confident that we can present this at TPAC
... I got some pushback on the manipulator - so I think we need to focus on...

JW: Sliders are a need

JC: True and there is no other way to do it now.
... The response I get are, we see there is a need, we see that you have a solution for it, but we do not have time to work on it ourselves
... I just want to ensure that this is created for an Accessibility only UI
... I am going to try to get some examples from the User Context, such as inverted colors, in sort of a patch for Safari so I can test some things. Also User contrast, and monochrome to implement
... Subtitle etc, we could probab;y exposed but I do not think we can get the Privacy model worked out in time for TPAC

JS: We all agree that we do not want this to be Accessibility only, and we will do all we need to do to ensure that 1.0 out the door not as an Accessibility only

JW: That is out of scope

JC: Yes. one person told me we could do it in ARIA only, but that would be Accessibility only

JW: A dependency on ARIA in respect to events - not a technical problem. But it would be a perception problem

JC: Yes and it would be an authoring problem - it wwould make it harder.
... I have stepped back a bit on the Events side because I want to see what comes out of the Editing TF



JW: So for the polyfils - you think you might have a few for a few events

JC: I am hoping that we can update Jason Kiss' polyfil
... A POC
... Just a patch

JW: It would be a start

JC: It wouldnt have the stuff for media qqueries - that is what I am hoping fo rhow TPAC

Testing Conversation; Polyfills

zkim, close this item

JS: I guess there have been other competing prorities particlarly out of WCAG

MC: I a not quite sure how to keep this on my radar, but I need to

JS: Maybe some of our TPAC time might be working on ssome of this directly

JW: We did well on some of that at the last one

JS: Perhaps we can come to some conclusions, and a good use of our time

<richardschwerdtfeger> s/Caty/Katy

JC: I am wondering if our TPAC should be side by side

zkim, close this item

Requirements & Use Cases Progress

JS: The problem is that the Editing TF may not be meeting at TPAC

JW: What are the inclusion ad exclusion criteria for the next release
... We were not satisfied the last time we talked about this


JW: We need to be able to adjust the UI - what are the real top priorities here for implementors for users

JS: It seems to be we have a lot of answers from A11y - but not for mainstream

JC: Most of what is in there now is NOT accessibility specific

JW: are these the things that content authors want to have access to to offer to users?

JS: Amd is it enough?

JW: What are the properties that are going to draw implementors

RS: Detecting high contrast mode would be useful

JC: Yes but that is pretty tied to A11y

JW: I am asking both questions

RS: Every product team at IBM are going to put this in, worldwide not for Accessibility purposes

JC: Ambiant Light reading is in CSS4 and would be a good idea

RS: If you have a list that would be great

JS: There is a W3C Ambient Light spec

JC: Yes, but that is a different aprach

RS: Do we have an background noise in audio options in there?

JC: That could just be a caption setting

RS: So then the captions are not just Accessibility

<jcraig> http://dev.w3.org/csswg/mediaqueries-4/

JS: Use case for background audio control - headphone when ypou go into and come out of a tunnel

<jcraig> light-level media query

JW: This may help us with scope

<jcraig> http://dev.w3.org/csswg/mediaqueries-4/#light-level

RS: You just have to think situational impairment

JS: Like glare on the monitor

RS: If you can change your background color

JC: So for that we could expose the users perferred color - that is already in the User Context spec

RS: I actiually went through the iPhone settings in the last two weeks and ther are so many

JC: Does the interaction model allow you to have a pointer
... That is exactly what it says

JW: So where we stand is we are looking for accessibility and mainstream focused features - to put in our first draft

<jcraig> @media (pointer:coarse) {

<jcraig> input[type="checkbox"], input[type="radio"] {

<jcraig> min-width:30px;

<jcraig> min-height:40px;

<jcraig> background:transparent;

<jcraig> }

<jcraig> }

JC: There are some that look like Accessibility features in this Media Queries
... like for Nintendo We or MS Connect
... The fine would be like a trackpad

RS: it would be nice to have that

JC: We could probably map the relevant ones from Media Queries to the IndieUI User Context

JC; But we do want to mirror the key

JW: Yes, you should be able to access the key

JS: Looks like we have a path then

JW: We need both
... User Context if we ca be clear about what the high priority use canses and go from there

<jcraig> http://rawgit.com/w3c/indie-ui/master/src/indie-ui-context.html#user-contrast

<jcraig> http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/apps/hh465764.aspx

JC: User Contrast I have it speced in IndieUI and the CSS WG is in agreement that something like this i snecessary - and they do not currently want the MS suggestion because it is too MS centric
... The IndieUI one is more platform agnostic
... I have an example in the user contrast there are some CSS examples of that - one is close to what MS does - but the content is a little bit different

JS: In OS10 there is a slider to increase contrast

RS: So you have that level of granularity

JC: I am not sure what is best. We have some new setting and CSS4 is looking at it

RS: Is MS open to changing it

JC: Well that is a specific MS feature
... MS switches everything to black and white - so we are trying to get things that work for both platforms

RS: I think we should go through these and see which ones are mainstream
... Even the IBM design people have not been able to put themselves in whT TO EXPECT IN A mobile environemnt

JC: Millions of people are using these settings

RS: They ate using Voiceover to read their mail - for mainstaream

JW: So the apprroach is look at what would be the draw p the properities that wwould be most useful across mainstream and accessibility

<jcraig> JC: Rich probably means "speak selection" or "speak screen", not VoiceOver

RS: The next thing is that we need an education thing around the mobile environment would be useful

JW: How about a Note after the spec is released

RS: Android and Google have different ways to open something - but for the developers the code does not change - that would be very powerfu

JS: Good, any closing comments

JW: I had some good conc=verstaion this afternoon on the Media Queries

trackbot, status?

+ Jason_White

+ Jason_White

Summary of Action Items

[End of minutes]

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$Date: 2014-09-17 22:18:54 $

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Found Scribe: Katie Haritos-Shea
Found ScribeNick: Ryladog
Default Present: janina, kurosawa, Katie_Haritos-Shea, Cooper, jcraig, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, +1.609.921.aaaa

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Present: +Janina_Sajka Katie_Haritos-Shea Michael_Cooper James_Craig Rich_Schwerdtfeger Jason_White Kurosawa
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-indie-ui/2014Sep/0016.html
Found Date: 17 Sep 2014
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2014/09/17-indie-ui-minutes.html
People with action items: 

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