20:48:47 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #indie-ui
20:48:47 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/09/17-indie-ui-irc
20:48:48 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
20:48:49 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #indie-ui
20:48:50 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be INDIE
20:48:50 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see WAI_Indie()5:00PM scheduled to start in 12 minutes
20:48:51 <trackbot> Meeting: Independent User Interface Task Force Teleconference
20:48:52 <trackbot> Date: 17 September 2014
20:48:53 <MichaelC> agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-indie-ui/2014Sep/0016.html
20:55:25 <janina> janina has joined #indie-ui
20:57:03 <Zakim> WAI_Indie()5:00PM has now started
20:57:10 <Zakim> +??P3
20:57:22 <janina> trackbot, start meeting
20:57:24 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
20:57:26 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be INDIE
20:57:26 <Zakim> ok, trackbot, I see WAI_Indie()5:00PM already started
20:57:27 <trackbot> Meeting: Independent User Interface Task Force Teleconference
20:57:27 <trackbot> Date: 17 September 2014
20:57:35 <kurosawa> kurosawa has joined #indie-ui
20:57:45 <janina> zakim, ??P3 is me
20:57:45 <Zakim> +janina; got it
20:58:28 <richardschwerdtfeger> richardschwerdtfeger has joined #indie-ui
20:59:25 <Zakim> +??P0
20:59:27 <janina> agenda?
20:59:33 <janina> Chair:  Janina_Sajka
20:59:33 <janina> agenda+ preview agenda with items from two minutes
20:59:33 <janina> agenda+ Editor's Report
20:59:33 <janina> agenda+ Checkin with Web Apps' Editing TF [See below]
20:59:33 <janina> agenda+ Testing Conversation; Polyfills
20:59:35 <janina> agenda+ Requirements & Use Cases Progress
20:59:38 <janina> agenda+ TPAC Planning http://www.w3.org/2014/11/TPAC/
20:59:40 <janina> agenda+ User Context Issues & Actions https://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/track/products/3
20:59:43 <janina> agenda+ Events Issues & Actions https://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/track/products/2
20:59:46 <janina> agenda+  Other Business
20:59:49 <janina> agenda+ Be Done
21:00:08 <kurosawa> zakim, ??P0 is me
21:00:08 <Zakim> +kurosawa; got it
21:00:17 <janina>  zakim, next item
21:00:17 <Zakim> agendum 1. "preview agenda with items from two minutes" taken up [from janina]
21:00:21 <Zakim> +Katie_Haritos-Shea
21:00:35 <hober> btw, at the css f2f last week, the wg resolved to adopt the color-inverted media query, so it can be dropped from indie ui & referenced
21:00:45 <hober> http://logs.csswg.org/irc.w3.org/css/2014-09-08/#e470801
21:01:01 <Ryladog> Ryladog has joined #indie-ui
21:01:15 <janina> Ted, will you be in IRC for awhile? It would be good to capture that after we start minutes
21:01:22 <hober> they're also going to take on high contrast, though there was no agreement in the room of how exactly to do it
21:01:47 <janina> Ted, good news!
21:01:50 <hober> janina: i have to run to a meeting, btu please copy and paste my lines after minuting starts
21:01:57 <janina> OK
21:02:08 <Zakim> +Cooper
21:02:30 <hober> the discussion started at http://logs.csswg.org/irc.w3.org/css/2014-09-08/#e470674
21:05:43 <Ryladog> Scribe: Katie Haritos-Shea
21:05:59 <Ryladog> ScribeNick: Ryladog
21:06:31 <Ryladog> zakim, this will be WAI_Indie
21:06:31 <Zakim> ok, Ryladog, I see WAI_Indie()5:00PM already started
21:06:38 <Zakim> +[Apple]
21:06:39 <Zakim> +??P4
21:06:43 <Zakim> -??P4
21:06:51 <jcraig> Zakim, Apple is jcraig
21:06:51 <Zakim> +jcraig; got it
21:06:54 <Ryladog> rrsagent, make minutes
21:06:54 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/09/17-indie-ui-minutes.html Ryladog
21:07:03 <Ryladog> rrsagent, make log public
21:07:34 <Ryladog> zakim, next item
21:07:34 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Editor's Report" taken up [from janina]
21:08:52 <Ryladog> JC: Only change, originally the IndieUI was on the window object, and we switched to navigator, but I decided to set it back to window - because..
21:09:16 <Ryladog> JC: Navigator is a singleton which doesnt make sense
21:09:45 <jcraig> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-indie-ui/2014Sep/0017.html
21:10:01 <Ryladog> JC: Will add email that he sent to list about this
21:10:49 <janina> < hober> btw, at the css f2f last week, the wg resolved to adopt the color-inverted media query, so it can be dropped from indie ui & referenced
21:10:52 <janina> < hober> http://logs.csswg.org/irc.w3.org/css/2014-09-08/#e470801
21:10:54 <janina> < hober> they're also going to take on high contrast, though there was no agreement in the room of how exactly to do it
21:10:57 <janina> < hober> the discussion started at http://logs.csswg.org/irc.w3.org/css/2014-09-08/#e470674
21:11:05 <Ryladog> JS: Ted OConnor talked about the CSS F2F
21:11:41 <Ryladog> JS: So I think it is interesting the CSS group is thinking of taking up contrst with inverted colors....so that is interesting
21:11:48 <jcraig> s/Navigator is a singleton which doesnt make sense/Navigator is a singleton, and it doesn't make sense for properties of the singleton to return different values depending who asks for them. So this needs to be on Window./
21:12:08 <Ryladog> JC: That is good. Did he mention anything other than inverted colors?
21:12:19 <Ryladog> JS: Yes High Contrast
21:13:08 <Ryladog> JC: It doesn't seem to say that...ok yes it is there, unsure how ot take it on
21:13:09 <Ryladog> zakim, next item
21:13:09 <Zakim> agendum 3. "Checkin with Web Apps' Editing TF" taken up [from See below]
21:14:08 <Ryladog> JS: We got regrets from Ted today - The Explainer Doc has npw been ssplit up into two documents
21:14:25 <Ryladog> s/Ben/Ted
21:14:27 <Zakim> +Rich_Schwerdtfeger
21:14:45 <Ryladog> s/npw/now
21:15:25 <Ryladog> JS: Have we heard anything frommm Jason about polyfills?
21:15:55 <Zakim> + +1.609.921.aaaa
21:15:58 <Ryladog> JC: He gave me what looks to be an implementation of the behavior but it is not really in polyfill form. But I owe him a response
21:16:32 <Ryladog> KHS: Welcome Jason!
21:16:46 <Ryladog> s/fommm/from
21:17:51 <Ryladog> JC: Jason Kiss used some IndieUi components but it needs some polyfill stuff - or I need to make another stab at it. I am not confident that we can present this at TPAC
21:18:26 <Ryladog> JC: I got some pushback on the manipulator - so I think we need to focus on...
21:18:36 <Ryladog> JW: Sliders are a need
21:18:49 <Ryladog> JC: True and there is no other way to do it now.
21:19:27 <Ryladog> JC: The response I get are, we see there is a need, we see that you have a solution for it, but we do not have time to work on it ourselves
21:19:53 <Ryladog> JC: I just want to ensure that this is created for an Accessibility only UI
21:21:09 <Ryladog> JC: I aam going to try to get some examples from the User Context, such as inverted colors, in sort of a patch for Safari so I can test some things. Also User contrast, and monochrome to implement
21:21:51 <Ryladog> JC: Subtitle etc, we could probab;y exposed but I do not think we can get the Privacy model worked out in time for TPAC
21:22:38 <Ryladog> JS: We all agree that we do not want this to be Accessibility only, and we will do all we need to do to ensure that 1.0 out the door not as an Accessibility only
21:22:48 <Ryladog> JW: That is out of scope
21:23:13 <Ryladog> JC: Yes. one person told me we could do it in ARIA only, but that would be Accessibility only
21:23:55 <Ryladog> JW: A dependency on ARIA in respect to events - not a technical problem. But it would be a perception problem
21:24:20 <Ryladog> JC: Yes and it would be an authoring problem - it wwould make it harder.
21:24:56 <Ryladog> JC: I have stepped back a bit on the Events side because I want to see what comes out of the Editing TF
21:25:14 <Ryladog> JC;
21:25:18 <Ryladog> s/amm/am
21:25:43 <Ryladog> JW: So for the polyfils - you think you might have a few for a few events
21:26:05 <Ryladog> JC: I am hoping that we can update Jason Kiss' polyfil
21:26:17 <Ryladog> JC: A POC
21:26:26 <Ryladog> JC: Just a patch
21:26:39 <Ryladog> JW: It would be a start
21:27:00 <Ryladog> JC: It wouldnt have the stuff for media qqueries - that is what I am hoping fo rhow TPAC
21:27:02 <Ryladog> zakim, next item
21:27:02 <Zakim> agendum 4. "Testing Conversation; Polyfills" taken up [from janina]
21:27:16 <Ryladog> zakim, next item
21:27:16 <Zakim> agendum 4 was just opened, Ryladog
21:27:30 <Ryladog> zkim, close this item
21:27:31 <Ryladog> zakim, next item
21:27:31 <Zakim> agendum 4 was just opened, Ryladog
21:27:58 <Ryladog> zakim, close this item
21:27:58 <Zakim> agendum 4 closed
21:27:59 <Zakim> I see 6 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
21:27:59 <Zakim> 5. Requirements & Use Cases Progress [from janina]
21:28:40 <Ryladog> JS: I guess there have been other competing prorities particlarly out of WCAG
21:28:58 <Ryladog> MC: I a not quite sure how to keep this on my radar, but I need to
21:29:18 <Ryladog> JS: Maybe some of our TPAC time might be working on ssome of this directly
21:29:34 <Ryladog> JW: We did well on some of that at the last one
21:29:56 <Ryladog> JS: Perhaps we can come to some conclusions, and a good use of our time
21:30:13 <richardschwerdtfeger> s/Caty/Katy
21:30:13 <Ryladog> JC: I am wondering if our TPAC should be side by side
21:30:15 <Ryladog> zkim, close this item
21:30:25 <jcraig> zakim, close this item
21:30:25 <Zakim> I do not know what agendum had been taken up, jcraig
21:30:29 <Ryladog> zakim, next item
21:30:29 <Zakim> agendum 5. "Requirements & Use Cases Progress" taken up [from janina]
21:30:53 <Ryladog> zakim, next item
21:30:53 <Zakim> agendum 5 was just opened, Ryladog
21:31:06 <Ryladog> zakim, close this item
21:31:06 <Zakim> agendum 5 closed
21:31:07 <Zakim> I see 5 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
21:31:07 <Zakim> 6. TPAC Planning http://www.w3.org/2014/11/TPAC/ [from janina]
21:31:29 <Ryladog> JS: The problem is that the Editing TF may not be meeting at TPAC
21:31:53 <Ryladog> JW: Wjat are the inclusion ad exclusion criteria for the next release
21:32:16 <Ryladog> JW: We were not satisfied the last time we talked about this
21:32:24 <Ryladog> s/Wkat/what
21:32:36 <Ryladog> s/Wjat/What
21:33:33 <Ryladog> JW: We need to be able to adjust the UI - what are the real top priorities here for implementors for users
21:33:56 <Ryladog> JS: It seems to be we have a lot of answers from A11y - but not for mainstream
21:34:16 <Ryladog> JC: Most of what is in there now is NOT accessibility specific
21:34:41 <Ryladog> JW: are these the things that content authors want to have access to to offer to users?
21:34:48 <Ryladog> JS: Amd is it enough?
21:35:04 <Ryladog> JW: What are the properties that are going to draw implementors
21:35:27 <Ryladog> RS: Detecting high contrast mode would be useful
21:35:44 <Ryladog> JC: Yes but that is pretty tied to A11y
21:35:55 <Ryladog> JW: I am asking both questions
21:36:27 <Ryladog> RS: Every product team at IBM are going to put this in, worldwide not for Accessibility purposes
21:37:01 <Ryladog> JC: Ambiant Light reading is in CSS4 and would be a good idea
21:37:16 <Ryladog> RS: If you have a list that would be great
21:37:28 <Ryladog> JS: There is a W3C Ambient Light spec
21:37:38 <Ryladog> JC: Yes, but that is a different aprach
21:38:01 <Ryladog> RS: Do we have an background noise in audio options in there?
21:38:12 <Ryladog> JC: That could just be a caption setting
21:38:35 <Ryladog> RS: So then the captions are not just Accessibility
21:39:21 <jcraig> http://dev.w3.org/csswg/mediaqueries-4/
21:39:26 <Ryladog> JS: Use case for background audio control - headphone when ypou go into and come out of a tunnel
21:39:30 <jcraig> light-level media query
21:39:37 <Ryladog> JW: This may help us with scope
21:39:37 <jcraig> http://dev.w3.org/csswg/mediaqueries-4/#light-level
21:40:10 <Ryladog> RS: You just have to think situational impairment
21:40:20 <Ryladog> JS: Like glare on the monitor
21:40:38 <Ryladog> RS: If you can change your background color
21:41:01 <Ryladog> JC: So for that we could expose the users perferred color - that is already in the User Context spec
21:41:36 <Ryladog> RS: I actiually went through the iPhone setting in the last two weeks and ther are so many
21:42:16 <Ryladog> JC: Does the interaction model allow you to have a pointer
21:42:44 <Ryladog> JC: That is exactly what it says
21:43:31 <Ryladog> JW: So where we stand is we are looking for accessibility and mainstream focused features - to put in our first draft
21:43:38 <jcraig> @media (pointer:coarse) {
21:43:38 <jcraig>   input[type="checkbox"], input[type="radio"] {
21:43:39 <jcraig>     min-width:30px;
21:43:41 <jcraig>     min-height:40px;
21:43:42 <jcraig>     background:transparent;
21:43:43 <jcraig>   }
21:43:44 <jcraig> }
21:44:12 <Ryladog> JC: There are some that look like Accessibility features in this Media Queries
21:44:38 <Ryladog> JC: like for Nintendo We ao MS Connect
21:44:56 <Ryladog> JC: The fine woud be like a trackpad
21:45:28 <Ryladog> s/woud/would
21:45:43 <Ryladog> RS: it would be nice to have that
21:46:26 <Ryladog> JC: We could probably map the relevant ones from Media Queries to the IndieUI User Context
21:46:44 <Ryladog> JC; But we do want to mirror the key
21:46:58 <Ryladog> JW: Yes, you should be able to access the key
21:47:22 <Ryladog> s/setting/settings
21:47:33 <Ryladog> JS: Looks like we have a path then
21:47:45 <Ryladog> JW: We need both
21:48:22 <Ryladog> JW: User Context if we ca be clear about what the high priority use cases and go from there
21:49:19 <Ryladog> s/ca/can
21:49:25 <jcraig> http://rawgit.com/w3c/indie-ui/master/src/indie-ui-context.html#user-contrast
21:49:55 <jcraig> http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/apps/hh465764.aspx
21:50:22 <Ryladog> JC: User Contrast I have it speced in IndieUI and the CSS WG is in agreement that something like this i snecessary - and they do not currently want the MS suggestion because it is too MS centric
21:50:39 <Ryladog> JC: The IndieUI one is more platform agnostic
21:51:22 <Ryladog> JC: I have an example in the user contrast there are some CSS examples of that - one is close to what MS does - but the content is a little bit different
21:51:47 <Ryladog> JS: In OS10 there is a slider to increase contrast
21:51:59 <Ryladog> RS: So you have that level of granularity
21:52:49 <Ryladog> JC: I am not sure what is best. We have some new setting and CSS4 is looking at it
21:53:00 <Ryladog> RS: Is MS open to changing it
21:53:16 <Ryladog> JC: Well that is a specific MS feature
21:54:07 <Ryladog> JC: MS switches everything to black and white - so we are trying to get things that work for both platforms
21:54:29 <Ryladog> RS: I think we should go through these and see which ones are mainstream
21:55:04 <Ryladog> RS: Even the IBM design people have not been able to put themselves in whT TO EXPECT IN A mobile environemnt
21:55:18 <Ryladog> JC: Millions of people are using these settings
21:55:35 <Ryladog> RS: They ate using Voiceover to read their mail - for mainstaream
21:56:08 <Ryladog> JW: So the apprroach is look at what would be the draw p the properities that wwould be most useful across mainstream and accessibility
21:56:25 <jcraig> JC: Rich probably means "speak selection" or "speak screen", not VoiceOver
21:56:44 <Ryladog> RS: The next thing is that we need an education thing around the mobile environment would be useful
21:57:02 <Ryladog> JW: How about a Note after the spec is released
21:57:35 <Ryladog> RS: Android and Google have different ways to open something - but for the developers the code does not change - that would be very powerfu
21:57:49 <Ryladog> JS: Good, any closing comments
21:58:18 <Ryladog> rrsagent, make minutes
21:58:18 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/09/17-indie-ui-minutes.html Ryladog
21:58:53 <Ryladog> JW: I had some good conc=verstaion this afternoon on the Media Queries
22:01:36 <Ryladog> trackbot, status?
22:02:38 <Zakim> -jcraig
22:02:40 <Zakim> -Rich_Schwerdtfeger
22:02:42 <Zakim> - +1.609.921.aaaa
22:02:44 <Zakim> -janina
22:02:51 <Zakim> -kurosawa
22:02:54 <Zakim> -Cooper
22:02:57 <Ryladog> rrsagent, stop log
22:02:57 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'stop log', Ryladog.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
22:03:16 <Ryladog> rrsagent, make minutes
22:03:16 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/09/17-indie-ui-minutes.html Ryladog
22:03:54 <Ryladog> zakim, please part
22:03:54 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees were janina, kurosawa, Katie_Haritos-Shea, Cooper, jcraig, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, +1.609.921.aaaa
22:03:54 <Zakim> Zakim has left #indie-ui
22:05:06 <Ryladog> + Jason_White
22:07:28 <Ryladog> s/aam/am
22:07:57 <Ryladog> s/ao/or
22:08:37 <Ryladog> s/ate/are
22:09:03 <Ryladog> zakim, bye
22:10:27 <Ryladog> rrsagent, draft minutes
22:10:27 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/09/17-indie-ui-minutes.html Ryladog
22:11:48 <Ryladog> + Jason_White
22:11:58 <Ryladog> rrsagent, draft minutes
22:11:58 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/09/17-indie-ui-minutes.html Ryladog
22:13:43 <Ryladog> Present: + Jason_White
22:13:50 <Ryladog> rrsagent, draft minutes
22:13:50 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/09/17-indie-ui-minutes.html Ryladog
22:15:20 <Ryladog> Present: + Janina_Sajka
22:15:37 <Ryladog> rrsagent, draft minutes
22:15:37 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/09/17-indie-ui-minutes.html Ryladog
22:18:40 <Ryladog> Present: +Janina_Sajka,Katie_Haritos-Shea,Michael_Cooper,James_Craig,Rich_Schwerdtfeger,Jason_White,Kurosawa
22:18:49 <Ryladog> rrsagent, draft minutes
22:18:49 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/09/17-indie-ui-minutes.html Ryladog
22:21:01 <Ryladog> rrsagent, please part
22:21:01 <RRSAgent> I see no action items