See also: IRC log
<trackbot> Date: 15 September 2014
<MichaelC> meeting: WAI-PF ARIA Caucus
<scribe> scribe: matt_king
<MichaelC> scribeNick: mattking
No news on this topic.
Will be discussed tues night at f2f
CS: please see if we can get a room with a whiteboard.
<MichaelC> issue-631?
<trackbot> issue-631 -- Property to provide keyboard help when element has focus -- open
<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/631
<MichaelC> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg-comments/2012JanMar/0010.html
<MichaelC> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg-comments/2012JanMar/0011.html
MC: Comment on 1.0; response is
that we would consider in 1.1.
... Help for SR users that explains how to operate when
uncommon key commands are required.
... would prefer a dedicated attribute for this purpose.
LW: Would this be an author provided attribute?
MC: Yes. The comment says this could be at times long so comment recommended that a reference to a description.
LS: You can not use aria-label for this purpose.
<bgaraventa1979> +q
<MichaelC> mk: don´t want to encourage bad design by providing a way to explain around it. Authors should design well from the start, and use aria-describedby or something in the few situations they truly have to explain it. IndieUI is the long term solution.
LW: There is a problem to solve
b/c it is difficult for SR users to know what is
scripted.
... but there would be no easy to visually represent the
attribute.
JS: Indie UI needs to be
considered and so we should probably postpone to 2.0 b/c Ineie
UI is not ready yet.
... we do not want to have to re-do it in 2.0.
BG: I support it. Often there are
too many key commands on a single widget, e.g., a tree that
supports both drag/drop and context menus
... You can add aria-drop but there is not a standard command
for that.
MK: I do not understand why ctrl+v or command+v can not be scripted for drop.
Joanie: I agree there is a
problem to solve, but I too think that Indie UI is the path.
Strings alone do not provide a robust answer.
... action interfaces also help with globalization
<Zakim> MichaelC, you wanted to mention context sensitive help and to ask about the Access Module approach
BG: Does Indie UI solution provide the ability to provide context-specific interaction information?
CS: The patterns proposed for 2.0 do exactly what Brian described.
LW: Can we take the recommended kb actins in APG it make a more visible reference and perhaps also provide a touch guide as well.
MC: there is a separate proposal for a form control specific help and they may be a better attribute to overload if we implement it.
<MichaelC> http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml-access/
LS: When aria-controledby is used,the UA should be able to provide help on how to use it.
LW: Can we explore how to mkae the relationship information more useful in the UAs?
CS: I think that some kind of
aria-help or something like that could be valuable. For
example, in Windows, thre is a separate key help field
... In IE, this is not visually rendered at this time.
... The purpose for pattern is self-describing controls.
... the bigger issue really should be a 2.0 time frame solution
so we can exploit patterns.
... The web apps group could benefit from the xhtml module.
<Zakim> janina, you wanted to ask whether Brian is solving a problem from a specific toolkit?
JS: Brian, are you trying to solve a problem that come from a particular web dev toolkit.
BG: Yes
JS: Is this a broken toolkit or a general problem?
BG: I think there are general
problems.
... I see aria-haspopu used everywhere but there is not a
consistent way for activating them.
<Lisa_Seeman> i need to go...
MK: there should not be help required to open a standard context menu
BG: What about the example of drag/drop that Joseph provided where ctrl left/right is used. How would this be communicated in the wild.
JS: the help is right on the page.
BG: designers resist putting on on the page.
JG: This would likely be a
redudntat way of mapping to eh a11y api
... if it just goes to aria-describedby on some platforms, then
it doesn't really help\
JS: We adivse people to put a
help button in their app that describes keyboard help.
... you do not need special aria properties for that.
CS: A mechanism for mapping
markup to platoform kb mappings is definitely needed.
... The answer is needed but it may not be an aira thing.
... There are api fields for keybaord help on windows and
having an aria mapping for that would be nice.
MC: there is no consensus that
this is apppropriate for aria 1.1 or even aria.
... do we want to do thin in the aria 1.1 time frame?
RESOLUTION: A specific solution for keyboard guidance is not in scope for ARIA 1.1.
MC: If there were a solution for help text, would it be a adequate solution to the keyboard guidance problem?
<clown> issue-406?
<trackbot> issue-406 -- Proposal for new aria-hint property. (Previously proposed as @aria-help) -- open
<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/406
CS: On windows this would be nice b/c it would be parallel to how native apps work.
JS: issue 406 is on the 1.1 agenda
RESOLUTION: Resolving issue 631 could be explored as part of resolving issue 406.
MC: Do we want this issue solved post aria 1.1?
Consensus that a future solution is needed.
MC: propose we move the issue to 2.0
<MichaelC> issue-406: consider whether this feature can also address the use case raised by issue-631
<trackbot> Notes added to issue-406 Proposal for new aria-hint property. (Previously proposed as @aria-help).
RESOLUTION: Reassign issue 631 to ARIA 2.0 and add a note to issue 406 TO LOOK FOR INTERIM SOLUTIONS.
<MichaelC> issue-631: Will explore again in ARIA 2.0, including question of whether to solve in ARIA or another technology
<trackbot> Notes added to issue-631 Property to provide keyboard help when element has focus.
<clown> action-1322?
<trackbot> action-1322 -- Jon Gunderson to Make some examples for aria-hidden="false" (including a hidden live region) -- due 2013-12-23 -- OPEN
<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1322
action-1322?
<trackbot> action-1322 -- Jon Gunderson to Make some examples for aria-hidden="false" (including a hidden live region) -- due 2013-12-23 -- OPEN
<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1322
JG: can I have 2 more weeks?
<MichaelC> action-1322 due 2 weeks
<trackbot> Set action-1322 Make some examples for aria-hidden="false" (including a hidden live region) due date to 2014-09-29.
MC: yes, pls post to list.
action-1389?
<trackbot> action-1389 -- Cynthia Shelly to Gather more information about secondary information (desc, tooltip, etc) -- due 2014-03-03 -- OPEN
<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1389
<clown> action-1389?
<trackbot> action-1389 -- Cynthia Shelly to Gather more information about secondary information (desc, tooltip, etc) -- due 2014-03-03 -- OPEN
<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1389
<MichaelC> action-1389 due 3 weeks
<trackbot> Set action-1389 Gather more information about secondary information (desc, tooltip, etc) due date to 2014-10-06.
CS: not yet done. Need 3 more weeks..
actin-1397?
<clown> action-1397?
<trackbot> action-1397 -- Jon Gunderson to Create proposal to fill out aria table semantics (tfoot, rowspan, colspan, thead, caption, etc.) -- due 2014-03-10 -- OPEN
<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1397
JG: this should be closed.
<MichaelC> close action-1397
<trackbot> Closed action-1397.
action-1423?
<trackbot> action-1423 -- Cynthia Shelly to Ask developers about group, none, and generic roles and whether it would be helpful for implementatation of e.g., narrator -- due 2014-05-16 -- OPEN
<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1423
<MichaelC> action-1423 due 1 week
<trackbot> Set action-1423 Ask developers about group, none, and generic roles and whether it would be helpful for implementatation of e.g., narrator due date to 2014-09-22.
CS: I have the information but need to compile; need 1 more week.
<MichaelC> action-1438 due 15 october
<trackbot> Set action-1438 Set up auto publish to GH Pages for editors' drafts https://pages.github.com due date to 2014-10-15.
action-1442?
<trackbot> action-1442 -- Léonie Watson to Create spec. text for aria-currentfor="IDREF" and aria-current="true/false", related to issue-587 -- due 2014-05-26 -- OPEN
<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1442
LW: I will pick out the feedback from the thread and start a clean thread.
MC: Discussion needs to be added a a call agenda.
<MichaelC> action-1461 due 1 week
<trackbot> Set action-1461 Ask an html-aapi editor to bring question of @inert to html a11y tf due date to 2014-09-22.
action-1461?
<trackbot> action-1461 -- Michael Cooper to Ask an html-aapi editor to bring question of @inert to html a11y tf -- due 2014-09-22 -- OPEN
<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1461
action-1462?
<trackbot> action-1462 -- Cynthia Shelly to Discuss computed role with ie team -- due 2014-06-30 -- OPEN
<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1462
<MichaelC> action-1462 due 1 week
<trackbot> Set action-1462 Discuss computed role with ie team due date to 2014-09-22.
CS: need 1 more week.
action-1463?
<trackbot> action-1463 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Keep issue-427 on radar for aapi meetings -- due 2014-06-30 -- OPEN
<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1463
<MichaelC> action-1463 due 1 week
<trackbot> Set action-1463 Keep issue-427 on radar for aapi meetings due date to 2014-09-22.
JS: dependent on Cynthia.
MC: Moving due date out
<MichaelC> action-1464 due 1 week
<trackbot> Set action-1464 Discuss implications of Element.computedRole() with Blink team due date to 2014-09-22.
action-1471?
<trackbot> action-1471 -- Jon Gunderson to Start list of requirements for aria 1.1 -- due 2014-07-07 -- OPEN
<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1471
<MichaelC> action-1471 due 3 weeks
<trackbot> Set action-1471 Start list of requirements for aria 1.1 due date to 2014-10-06.
JG: Need 3 weeks.
MC: want before f2f.
action-1473
<trackbot> action-1473 -- Cynthia Shelly to Prepare recommendation on automation of tracking of bugs filed with various implementers -- due 2014-07-07 -- OPEN
<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1473
<MichaelC> action-1473 due 30 oct
<trackbot> Set action-1473 Prepare recommendation on automation of tracking of bugs filed with various implementers due date to 2014-10-30.
action-1474?
<trackbot> action-1474 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Work with joseph s. and david b. to rewrite text alternative computation for both the aria spec. and the core accessibility api mappings specification. -- due 2014-09-04 -- OPEN
<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1474
<MichaelC> action-1474 due 30 oct
<trackbot> Set action-1474 Work with joseph s. and david b. to rewrite text alternative computation for both the aria spec. and the core accessibility api mappings specification. due date to 2014-10-30.
Joseph: should te a tpac doc
<clown> action-1485?
<trackbot> action-1485 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Raise issue-397 with moz/nvda devs regarding aria-setsize="999+" format -- due 2014-08-18 -- OPEN
<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1485
action-1485?
<trackbot> action-1485 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Raise issue-397 with moz/nvda devs regarding aria-setsize="999+" format -- due 2014-08-18 -- OPEN
<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1485
<clown> action-1486?
<trackbot> action-1486 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Inspect webkit backwards-compatibility regarding aria-setsize="999+" format for issue-397 -- due 2014-07-28 -- OPEN
<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1486
<clown> issue-397?
<trackbot> issue-397 -- Need a way to specify an indeterminate set size -- open
<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/397
<MichaelC> action-1485 due 2 weeks
<trackbot> Set action-1485 Raise issue-397 with moz/nvda devs regarding aria-setsize="999+" format due date to 2014-09-29.
<MichaelC> action-1486 due 2 weeks
<trackbot> Set action-1486 Inspect webkit backwards-compatibility regarding aria-setsize="999+" format for issue-397 due date to 2014-09-29.
Joanie: need 3 weeks.
<MichaelC> action-1487 due 1 weeks
<trackbot> Set action-1487 Raise issue-397 with ie/trident devs regarding aria-setsize="999+" format (mainly, would the format change break backwards-compalibility with ie source?) due date to 2014-09-22.
action-1489?
<trackbot> action-1489 -- Michael Cooper to Propose spec text to limit what aria attributes can be overridden by strong native semantics (e.g., aria-label and aria-labelledby) -- due 2014-07-28 -- OPEN
<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1489
<MichaelC> action-1489 due 4 weeks
<trackbot> Set action-1489 Propose spec text to limit what aria attributes can be overridden by strong native semantics (e.g., aria-label and aria-labelledby) due date to 2014-10-13.
MC: need 4 weeks
action-1493?
<trackbot> action-1493 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Propose spec text allowing ¨implicit value for role¨ to provide default values for required properties -- due 2014-09-09 -- OPEN
<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1493
<MichaelC> action-1493 due 2 weeks
<trackbot> Set action-1493 Propose spec text allowing ¨implicit value for role¨ to provide default values for required properties due date to 2014-09-29.
Joseph: 2 more weeks.
JG: is there other test case work that needs to be done?
CS: there are test cases that
didn't get run b/c we already met conformance.
... some cases are not run for IE, and that info would be
helpful.
MC: Getting test cases for new features created in a more timely manner would be helpful.
JG: Right now I have people that want to do stuff and do not want to lose their interest.
Lisa: Is PF meeting at the F2F?
MC: no PF specific meetings, but there are ARIA topics.
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.138 of Date: 2013-04-25 13:59:11 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/CS/MC/ Succeeded: s/owuld/would/ Succeeded: s/INTERUM/INTERIM/ Found Scribe: matt_king Found ScribeNick: mattking Default Present: Michael_Cooper, janina, +1.703.978.aaaa, Joseph_Scheuhammer, +1.603.882.aabb, Joanmarie_Diggs, Fred_Hesch, Jon_Gunderson, Cynthia_Shelly, +1.541.678.aacc, Matt_King, Léonie_Watson, Fred_Esch, Lisa_Seeman, +1.415.624.aadd, Bryan_Garaventa Present: Michael_Cooper janina +1.703.978.aaaa Joseph_Scheuhammer +1.603.882.aabb Joanmarie_Diggs Fred_Hesch Jon_Gunderson Cynthia_Shelly +1.541.678.aacc Matt_King Léonie_Watson Fred_Esch Lisa_Seeman +1.415.624.aadd Bryan_Garaventa Regrets: Rich_Schwerdtfeger James_Craig Stefan_Schnabel Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2014Sep/0065.html Found Date: 15 Sep 2014 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2014/09/15-aria-minutes.html People with action items: WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines. You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option.[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]