See also: IRC log
<trackbot> Date: 11 September 2014
<scribe> scribeNick: nigel
https://www.w3.org/wiki/TimedText/geneva2014
courtney: My goal is to have
sample code that will map from TTML to WebVTT and back the
other way and also a paper that
... describes how to do the mapping both ways. I've made a lot
of progress - it won't be finished next week. I want to go
through the TTML attributes.
... Andreas has also been working on a mapping and we've been
coordinating our efforts. He's focussed on the EBU-TT-D profile
primarily. He also wants to present his work.
... I've identified some areas in both specs where there is no
equivalent, and it would be good to highlight those.
nigel: +1
... Is there a good version of WebVTT we should be
referencing?
courtney: I'm using the most recent draft, which I think will become 1.0.
<courtney> http://dev.w3.org/html5/webvtt/
nigel: Great, we'll use that as
our baseline dated on Tuesday.
... Without wishing to steal Frans's thunder, he tells me EBU
has offered to sponsor lunch on both days. Thanks EBU!
... I'll ask for it at 12:30.
... On day 2 we have a write-a-test hackathon - any thoughts on
the test format?
courtney: There's no test suite
for WebVTT yet - my team is working on that.
... The TTML test suite covers a lot of cases, so one thought I
had is to convert them all to WebVTT.
... We're also looking at it from the WebVTT spec
perspective.
nigel: I understood that
Wednesday's work will be for testing the mappings rather than
each spec.
... How much time do we need to set aside for IMSC 1 blocking
issues on Wednesday?
pal: I think there's only one
real issue for discussion, which is #overflow because there's a
difference in understanding of the impact.
... On the other ones, largely from the comments so far I don't
expect much discussion.
... On Change Proposal 28 that's something I'm not sure we need
any more. We may be able to remove that.
nigel: I'll re-examine CP28 and see if I can withdraw it.
pal: Without that I think that
leaves Issue-339, and I don't expect us to need more than 1
hour on that.
... I'll be happy to drive the IMSC 1 issues on Wednesday
morning.
nigel: We also have an agenda item on our TTWG process.
pal: Did we resolve that?
nigel: The consensus call had an end date of Wednesday. I intend to raise it on Wednesday and conclude the topic with a resolution. So far I've heard no negative comments.
http://www.w3.org/wiki/TimedText/tpac2014
nigel: The structure of each day
is a little different than last year - WG meetings will run
0830-1100 and 1500-1800 with lunch and ad hoc meetings from
1100-1500.
... Please let me know if you need a telco facility.
pal: I suggest planning for one, and not using it if we don't need it.
tmichel: I suggest using it for
specific slots rather than the entire day.
... There's no difference in terms of cost but we need to
reserve the speaker phone.
nigel: I'll amend our wbs survey
and reserve it.
... I expect the agenda to be TTML2 and the
TTML<-->WebVTT mapping.
pal: I suggest we take 30 minutes next week to discuss the CR process and next steps and timeline for IMSC 1, based on whether we use the 2005 or 2014 process.
nigel: good point.
action-325?
<trackbot> action-325 -- Pierre-Anthony Lemieux to Check if respec has been updated for the 2014 w3c process -- due 2014-09-11 -- PENDINGREVIEW
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/325
pal: Respec has been given an additional config option to select process, so that's all done as far as I can tell.
close action-325
<trackbot> Closed action-325.
action-322?
<trackbot> action-322 -- Jerry Smith to Indicate preference for updating sdp-us for ttml2 -- due 2014-08-21 -- PENDINGREVIEW
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/322
jdsmith: I think focusing on IMSC rather than updating SDP-US is the better path. We're the only current implementor that I know of and I don't think we see value in revving the spec or the implementation.
RESOLUTION: We will not update SDP-US for TTML2.
close action-322
<trackbot> Closed action-322.
action-324?
<trackbot> action-324 -- Pierre-Anthony Lemieux to Draft a note for imsc 1 progressivelydecodable to make concrete what authors should take into account -- due 2014-08-21 -- PENDINGREVIEW
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/324
close action-324
<trackbot> Closed action-324.
issue-344?
<trackbot> issue-344 -- Add a clarification note expressing intent behind unqualified attribute names -- raised
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/344
reopen issue-344
<trackbot> Re-opened issue-344.
issue-340?
<trackbot> issue-340 -- Make clear that the use of the ttp:profile attribute is not required. -- pending review
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/340
pal: I made two changes to implement this, both a note and a change of wording from 'profile SHALL be associated' to 'profile is associated'.
<scribe> ACTION: frans Review resolution to Issue-340 and add review comments to issue [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/09/11-tt-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-326 - Review resolution to issue-340 and add review comments to issue [on Frans de Jong - due 2014-09-18].
issue-343?
<trackbot> issue-343 -- Processing of non-IMSC/TTML namespace elements -- pending review
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/343
<scribe> ACTION: frans Review resolution to Issue-343 and add review comments to issue [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/09/11-tt-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-327 - Review resolution to issue-343 and add review comments to issue [on Frans de Jong - due 2014-09-18].
pal: We have some issues making
blanket statements about foreign namespaces here - the rule is
simpler: if it's not forbidden then it's allowed.
... I couldn't find a way to word it relating to foreign
namespaces without getting really convoluted.
... Because there are some things from specified foreign
namespaces from SMPTE and EBU that are permitted.
... The next issues aren't captured yet in the tracker because
I wanted to make sure that the reflector didn't generate
further comments.
... Those are the three issues I emailed about yesterday:
issue-332, issue-342, issue-339.
issue-332?
<trackbot> issue-332 -- #cellResolution support -- open
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/332
pal: I don't expect much further
concern on this. The background is simple: IMSC 1 forbids
ttp:cellResolution. The request was for any permitted value to
be used.
... That only affects the maths for the c metric, and there's
no further impact. So the proposal is to lift the
prohibition.
nigel: LGTM
pal: I plan to implement these changes if I don't hear any more in the next few days.
issue-342?
<trackbot> issue-342 -- Add ebutts:multiRowAlign and ebutts:linePadding attributes to the IMSC Text Profile -- open
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/342
pal: These extensions are
intended to allow timed text presentation of a style that's
consistent with European practice, and perhaps elsewhere in the
world.
... This does require adding a feature to the IMSC layout
engine, but not to the HRM. It looks like a processor can
ignore them and still yield reasonable results. My suggestion
is to add those features,
... even as a SHALL, and move forward with that. The only
caveat is these features may appear in TTML2.
nigel: This is analogous to the IMSC 1 situation with forcedDisplay, in that TTML2 may do it differently and IMSC 2 would adopt the TTML2 way.
Issue-342: Make sure to include a note along the lines of the forcedDisplay note that TTML2 and IMSC 2 may do it differently.
<trackbot> Notes added to Issue-342 Add ebutts:multiRowAlign and ebutts:linePadding attributes to the IMSC Text Profile.
issue-339?
<trackbot> issue-339 -- Allow the use of #overflow -- open
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/339
pal: F2F discussion may be needed
here. IMSC 1 forbids tts:overflow="visible" because that mutes
the specified extent of the region.
... This has profound implications for the HRM and because from
an authorial standpoint, to me and others, the author has no
idea how big the region will eventually be.
... I'm also trying to understand what the use cases are for
tts:overflow="visible" provides a benefit.
nigel: There's a tension here
between region size and font size, where rendered font sizes
can not be known at authoring time.
... Overflow allows for some safety there.
pal: That's what reference fonts are designed to address.
courtney: What about when implementations allow users to override settings?
pal: In that case the
implementation would need to know how to expand the regions to
compensate, if, say, the font size is doubled.
... I'm happy to add a note to the spec to explain this.
nigel: At first a reflector response along those lines (i.e. about reference fonts) would be helpful.
pal: Notwithstanding CP28 I think this concludes all the outstanding notes on IMSC, so we have a realistic shot at moving along on our proposed timeline - thank you all.
nigel: adjourns meeting - thanks all, and see you at 0900 at the EBU in Geneva!
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.138 of Date: 2013-04-25 13:59:11 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/Action: frans_ebu Review resolution to Issue-340 and add review comments to issue// WARNING: Bad s/// command: s/Error finding 'frans_ebu'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/users>./ Succeeded: s|Error finding 'frans_ebu'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/users>.|| Succeeded: s|Error finding 'frans_ebu'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/users>.|| Succeeded: s|s//|| Found ScribeNick: nigel Inferring Scribes: nigel Default Present: pal, nigel, jdsmith, courtney, Thierry, tmichel Present: pal nigel jdsmith courtney tmichel Regrets: glenn andreas Found Date: 11 Sep 2014 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2014/09/11-tt-minutes.html People with action items: frans resolution review[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]