See also: IRC log
<trackbot> Date: 11 September 2014
<janina> xregrets: Mark_Sadecki
<ShaneM_> ScribeNick: ShaneM
<ShaneM_> ScribeNick: ShaneM_
Already identified some potential topics. Should be a good opportunity for joint meetings at TPAC.
Call for consensus closed last night.
We did get 4 negative responses. More than 4 positive responses.
There needs to be a telecon during the CfC. That is this call.
There is no directors decision yet on the FO.
One CfC comment was that the document cannot proceed to the next phase until the FO decision is issued.
that is consistent with the action already requested by the TF Co-Facilitators and I believe supported by the HTML WG Chairs for an expedited decision by the director.
it should be handled prior to the transition request - where that is the request to the AB for transition to PR, but in this case we're also trying to get it addressed prior to the CfC in the HTML WG.
basically, it is in process.
this document still need some edits.
janina: Can Liam make these edits?
liam: yes, next week.
<janina> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/wiki/CAPTCHA_v2
janina: might want to update the note. there are change that have been made to make them more accessible.
<David> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Captcha_Alternatives_and_thoughts
janina: for example some services will offer to call you or send an SMS. there's room to update.
<David> we've discussed it in WCAG
janina: seem to gets back burnered a lot by PF. Maybe this is something the task force could take up.
Cyns: COGA has done some thinking about it.
David: WCAG has as well
janina: could someone help update the wiki?
Judy: glad to hear that multiple
groups are thinking about this, but also concerned that there
is duplicate work going on
... if WAI groups are working on this sending that info to the
coordination group would help that everyone knows what is being
done
... this is a very high priority for doing something about this
in China, for example.
... whatever comes out next with regard to CAPTCHA guidance
should have more practical guidance. Techniques that could help
make sure that developers have a good example they can grab and
go with.
janina: techniques alone are a good enough reason to republish. There are lots of new options that we can help people use effectively.
<Zakim> ShaneM_, you wanted to ask about webdeveloper.org
ShaneM_: If this is for the public isn't webplatform.org a good place to help developers with good examples?
Judy: well - it should be delivered in a many places. webplatform.org is one. and many groups can be working on this. They just should be coordinating.
<JF> JF notes that its not duplicate effort, but rather complimentary efforts
There is some deployment of the audio backing / sms messages as an a11y assist. google, ebay, microsoft were examples. not sure how international it is.
liam: there are some assumptions that sms messages are ubiquitous and cheap, and that's just not true.
janina: well we have a principle that there should always be multiple solutions.
JF: we are seeing a transition to
multi-factor authentication. that's one of the places where SMS
is coming in. CAPTCHA is sort of a way to have more perceived
security.
... examples are a text with a code, or they will call you with
a digitized thing, or an email with the MF authentication
information.
... it is possible we can help people move away from CAPTCHA
when security is a goal, instead looking at more modern MF
authentication techniques.
janina: sounds like there is good interest in updating this note.
Judy: is there a specific TF piece of this? Or is this just FYI to the task force?
janina: no - we are looking at
places where to focus our energies in this task force. Updating
this document might be such a task force activity.
... the next step is to pull together the pieces from the 5.1
opportunities wiki to decide priorities and who is going to do
what
janina: we are discussing this because there is A11Y interest in being able to find registered events, and the HTML working group owns the DOM spec now.
richardschwerdtfeger: we need to
be able to determine if there are certain classes of event
handlers (e.g., keyboard handler) are registered on an
element.
... important for checking design patterns, useful for IndieUI,
and useful for ARIA 2.0
... we need to know, for example, if there is a mouse handler.
and if there is, then there had better been a keyboard handler
as well.
ShaneM_: there seem to be objections to the based upon security concerns. It would make it easier to intercept or supplant handlers with man in the middle style attacks.
janina: it would be nice if we
could discuss this at TPAC to see if there is a way
forward.
... note that it would also help with a11y checkers and
validators.
<Zakim> liam, you wanted to note a large part of html5 is to end that
liam: a large part of the html5 work is to make things work the same across all browsers
<paulc> From the DOM4 spec; "This document is published as a snapshot of the DOM Living Standard with the intent of keeping the differences from the original to a strict minimum, and only through subsetting (only things that are not implemented were removed for this publication). "
liam: it is not okay if things work differently. Browser specialization is the opposite of what we want to achieve.
paulc: DOM4 is a strict subset of
the DOM living standard. If we need to make changes the DOM it
may be difficult to get that done.
... the HTML working group may not be very open to diverging
from the living standard.
janina: PF is somewhat aware of this. PF had discussed possibly preparing an extension spec.
paulc: doing an extension spec
might not be a bad idea. Working on this with the correct
people under the correct license would help with adoption into
the Living Standard.
... we would need topic experts and implementors involved
too.
janina: what we see as the main
problem is convincing the non-A11Y people that there is
something worthy of developing an extension spec. It would need
to be 'well reviewed' by the experts.
... if we can get the right people at the table during TPAC
that would help.
paulc: what edits are needed to the alt-text document? What did liam agree to?
janina: the front matter / boiler
plate needs to be put in. Prepare it for a working group
Note.
... if longdesc becomes a rec the note will need an update. if
aria-describedat makes it into aria 1.1, the note will also
need an update.
No scribe volunteers.
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.138 of Date: 2013-04-25 13:59:11 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/that's why the chairs asked/that is consistent with the action already requested by the TF Co-Facilitators and I believe supported by the HTML WG Chairs/ Succeeded: s/for transition to PR/for transition to PR, but in this case we're also trying to get it addressed prior to the CfC in the HTML WG/ Found ScribeNick: ShaneM WARNING: No scribe lines found matching ScribeNick pattern: <ShaneM> ... Found ScribeNick: ShaneM_ Inferring Scribes: ShaneM, ShaneM_ Scribes: ShaneM, ShaneM_ ScribeNicks: ShaneM, ShaneM_ Default Present: janina, Judy, Sam, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, ShaneM, David_MacDonald, Adrian_Roselli, paulc, John_Foliot, Cynthia_Shelly, Liam, LJWatson Present: janina Judy Sam Rich_Schwerdtfeger ShaneM David_MacDonald Adrian_Roselli paulc John_Foliot Cynthia_Shelly Liam LJWatson Regrets: Mark_Sadecki Found Date: 11 Sep 2014 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2014/09/11-html-a11y-minutes.html People with action items:[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]