See also: IRC log
shadi: metrics note is still in discussion with
the editors
... getting some comments from Judy so no progress this week
... mobile note, we received an update
... I'll look at next steps and for me to get an editorial process in place
... same with user modeling for a11y - congrats to the editors
... I received a version last week and will be going through it editorially
... will send a version back to the editors for review and then to the
group
... text customization not received
... things look good overall though alignment may need some work, like how
citations are done etc.
... sound ok?
yehya: yes, comment on response document - will clean it up and send back
shadi: that was really good, so commentors will
see how comments addressed
... user modeling for a11y is online
<shadi> http://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/2013/user-modeling/note/ED-UM4A
shadi: my suggestion yehya and chrisots is to go through it editorial first
yehya: I think we agree to that
shadi: same peter for the mobile side
peter: ok
<christos> https://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/wiki/Accessibility_and_way-finding,_navigation_and_exploration_systems#Accessible_Way-Finding_using_Web_Technologies_Online_Symposium_3_December_2014
shadi: let me have a look at that
... we need to do the cross referencing and cleaning
... let's look at the page christos put in (see link)
... what are people's reactions to this - mainly scope and objectives
section
... have a look at background first
<shadi> https://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/wiki/Accessibility_and_way-finding,_navigation_and_exploration_systems#Background
yehya: I miss section references in the background
shadi: do we want references directly in the text?
yehya: some numbers in the text
... if I recall from other symposia the background always has references
christos: I think there is a difference between backgrounds in the call and main page of the symposium or final link
<shadi> http://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/2013/user-modeling/Overview.html#background
christos: I believe the references are mainly used int he background instead of the call for paper
shadi: for example (see link)
... the issue is it is sometimes more difficult to read
christos: I think we could put some links to places
yehya: I think it is ok
... I thought we had previously added links
... we can can stick to it as is without direct references in the call
shadi: one thing christos is to add a link to the wiki page
christos: there is a link at the end of the
background
... the main page needs to be cleaned up
yehya: I was looking for indoor-navigation and I found it
+q
shadi: quite a long sentence
... fact that you missed it is an indication that that sentence was too
long
chistos: I could change this into a list
... but I don't like the way that it would look
shadi: I'm just wondering if the second sentence
is talking about the same thing
... you start talking about different types of applications
... I'm not sure if everybody understand what turn by turn navigation means
... lots of terms in there
... I'm wondering if the third part could be a separate sentence
christos: yes, I could break that out
shadi: at least 3-4 points in there
christos: ok
shadi: why are they showing problems? "Emerging applications.."
christos: the wording of problems is maybe not the correct one
shadi: I think you're trying to do 2 things in
this sentence
... enumerate more domains and the statement that a lot of work needs to be
done
... probably best to separate them
... I think that latter point - perhaps do it later on in the paragraph
... first bit to highlight the scope, different areas where way finding takes
place
... and I'm thinking about, the way finding is the main term we plan to use -
way finding includes..
... so what you'd do in the first paragraph is define/outline way finding and
from there on just use the work way finding
christos: that's good, ok
Minor Typo wiki: /Although there are an incresing number/Although there are an increasing number/
<shadi> https://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/wiki/Accessibility_and_way-finding,_navigation_and_exploration_systems#Background
shadi: I think info in there is great.. and I can
help you with the editing as well
... let's look back at the intro section
<shadi> https://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/wiki/Accessibility_and_way-finding,_navigation_and_exploration_systems#Introduction
shadi: intro is like a mini abstract and make sure the background and scope is all here, inviting..
test test
(oh ok sorry about)
shadi: question is what is an exploration system
christos: systems that allow you to see the
surrounding area - I'm a tourist and I want to go to a restaurant that fits my
preferences and I explore the area
... not a term that I see used to often
shadi: like location based services
christos: as you suggested we can use way-finding
as the main term and describe it in more detail..
... I think we can keep way-finding as the main term..
shadi: ok, any other comments klaus
klaus: more related to background
... several researches and research and people working on annotations and
points of interests related to this exploration
... a term that could raise the interest to researches working on that
domain
christos: .. annotations for places is also included as a term there
shadi: you could think about christos, so the
second sentence you start describing navigation systems
... you could have one sentence that talks about navigations sytems
... then have a sub type about indoor explorations
... then have travel types and so on..
... by breaking up that second sentence and explaining each term, could
actually work
christos: I can do that
yehya: last sentence - when you read the background it's stating many problems with such systems - perhaps put in the gaols to talk about the problems that exist
christos: yes, I think the sentence tries to
introduce the two main challenges..
... I don't know if I understand yehya's comment
yehya: I meant in the background you are telling
that disabled persons are having a lot of problems with way-finding systems
... it may be good to have in the goals to include not on the needs but also
the problems
christos: ok I can change the wording
shadi: again, I think you could split the last
sentence in two
... first sentence is the gaol
... the second is the scope
christos: ok
shadi: confirms goal
... explore what are the needs of needs and challenges of existing..
... does scope reflect goal - 2min reading break
... ok reactions
yehya: it covers what has been said in the intro and background - nice worded
peter: agree with yehya
klaus: +1
shadi: I think this spans the scope nicely.
... if you look at data centre and technologies and describes them - so it
gives me a bit of a taste
... with the UI I'm missing that - I think this is just tweaking
... maybe - haptic feedback.. audio .. and all the different kinds of UIs and
information highly mapping visiual..
christos: I can include more info about haptic feedback, notifcations,..
shadi: just a little, not too much - in the other's you do it nicely
klaus: to the scope, going back to the intro - it
highlights the user needs and missing understading
... this might also be reflected in the scope
shadi: right, and maybe as part of the UI - this where the user needs to come in
klaus: and also the data
shadi: right, you need the entire stack
... you could let the word user needs float in here and there in the
descriptions
... and also the challenges with existing systems - so UIs scope is to explore
how systems could address the needs and preferences uses such as haptic
feedback and other formats..
... this way you combine the exploration and user needs and preferences into
one goal
christos: yes it's ok - I see that we missed some key words
shadi: we need to link all the sections
together
... at the end of the scope we list 4 submissions we particularly are looking
for
... are we looking for more or should we remove any?
klaus: perhaps, term approaches could also use something like prototypes or solutions..
shadi: approaches and prototypes or demonstrations..
klaus: i'm not a fan of the term approaches..
... I think we are interested in new and crazy ideas
christos: we can change that - new approaches including prototypes..
shadi: I see the word approaches is also used in objectives - is approaches commonly used/understood?
yehya: I would at least add something to it like what klaus said
shadi: how about concepts and..
christos: is there anything that would not fit under concepts and solutions
<shadi> "concepts and solutions"
christos: concepts and solutions sounds even better
shadi: anything else under the scope secion?
klaus: one other thing of interest is about
legislation and politics
... perhaps there are people working on this
... may go too far
christos: not sure if this introduces a new path
in the scope..
... maybe we could include some related terms
... I don't know if we want to highligh/extend the scope
shadi: I wonder if we're scope creeping
... the objectives would be the more specific research questions
christos: we could include policy and legislation in one of the questions there - maybe in the 3rd or 4th bullet - probably the 3rd one
shadi: I think it may be better to have as a
separate question to carefully scope it
... do we mean discrimination - if you're selling navigation that you should
also include accessibility, or consumer protection
christos: the other thing, we have in the title
accessible way-find.. the scope is how web tech relates to problems that
way-finding systems
... I don't know if adding legislation will lead to a completely new path and
out of scope discussions
... ok to include policy but not keep on words involving legislation..
shadi: I think policy and legislation is a major
driver for a11y..
... for instance a lot of countries have info about making web sites a11y but
is also providing a way-finding system to be able to find a class on
university
... how do existing policies apply to existing technologies
(op I'm blocked from re-joining - sorry guys)
(could someone take over scribing?)
(will use skype in the future and not sketchy voip software :)
<shadi> KM: think alone the term "legislation" may be good to provoke ideas
<shadi> ...can still decide to accept or not
<shadi> christos: can try to play around with that