Social Web Working Group Teleconference

02 Sep 2014

See also: IRC log


Arnaud, deiu, +1.303.204.aaaa, jasnell, aaronpk, MarkCrawford, Sandro, rhiaro, ShaneHudson, wilkie, MattMarum, bblfish, tommorris, elf-pavlik, Tsyesika, tibor_katelbach, tantek, Dan_Romascanu, oshepherd, Doug_Schepers, Hhalpin


<trackbot> Date: 02 September 2014

<tommorris> ready to go, humans?

<ShaneHudson> That was me

Zakim: +1.412.370.aabb is me

<deiu> There's always 41#

<ShaneHudson> I think I'm 10 but Zakim didn't accept it

<bblfish> what do you have to type?

<MattMarum> +??P7 is me

<deiu> bblfish: 41#

<hhalpin> hey everyone, I am in border control at an airport due to flight delay so dialing in late

<hhalpin> trackbot, start meeting

<trackbot> Meeting: Social Web Working Group Teleconference

<trackbot> Date: 02 September 2014

<bblfish> zakim IPcaller is me

<tommorris> Zakim: IPcaller.a is me

<bblfish> it really works :-)

<hhalpin> quick note - if anyone is unclear of their invited expert status, just email me.

<hhalpin> there was a systeam error when group was first set up so myself and chairs werent notified for a while.

<deiu> sandro: your mic is terrible

<ShaneHudson> Someone has a lot of feedback

<tantek> ah, nothing like 60Hz in the morning

<hhalpin> thus folks can easily slip through

<tantek> who just joined?

<tantek> nicely done oshepherd

<jasnell> I'll volunteer for either next week or the week after

<Arnaud> srcibe: wilkie

<Arnaud> scribe: wilkie

<tantek> reminder, when you speak, please say your name first, at least the first few times - it helps the scribe(s) a lot!

<ShaneHudson> I will volunteer soon too, once I've got to grips with how it all works :)

<deiu> scribenick: wilkie

<tommorris> tantek +1

<tommorris> works on wikipedia. ;-)

<aaronpk> +1 for reducing bureaucracy

tantek: have minutes copy/pasted on wiki to retain history; people will fix/maintain them

<ShaneHudson> I agree that everything on the wiki will make it easier

Arnaud: common scribe is a better tool for doing this. tell us of any better options.

<hhalpin> I recommend Skype dial out over SIP in general

proposed: scribe copy/paste minutes to social wg wiki

<Arnaud> RESOLVED: scribe copy/paste minutes to social wg wiki

resolved: scribe copy/paste minutes to social wg wiki

<tommorris> +1

<oshepherd> +1

<hhalpin> you can make munutes text by adding ,text to end of URI

<tantek> regrets for next week's meeting. I will be on a flight.

<aaronpk> like this? http://www.w3.org/2014/08/26-social-minutes.html,text

<bblfish> http://www.w3.org/2014/11/TPAC/

<ShaneHudson> Regrets in advance, I will not be able to make it to TPAC

<hhalpin> yes aaronpk

Arnaud: you need to register for TPAC, face-to-face meeting

<bblfish> tantek, which icon?

<bblfish> ah yes, I was looking to see what it would look like. There is no link to that from the irc channel info...

<bblfish> :-)

Arnaud: we are scheduled (TPAC) to meet on 27-28 (October). the chairs will try to set up a schedule/agenda.

<bblfish> ah yes...

<hhalpin> notes that registering early saves on flight and hotel

<MattMarum> MarkC was speaking

Arnaud: it would be helpful to have a joint meeting with Social-IG

<tibor_katelbach> I'm an observer

<tibor_katelbach> I submitted request though

<tibor_katelbach> wiating for validation

<MarkC> given the large pool of folks involved in social in the bay area, we might need to have some control over the number of observers

MarkC: social-IG will coordinate and come up with topics of interest to bring to social-wg for discussion/collaboration

<tantek> MarkC, let's wait til it's a problem

<ShaneHudson> Will the meetings have remote access for those of us that cannot make it?

<jasnell> As far as TPAC agenda is concerned, it would be good to give an overview of the AS2 draft at that time. I can walk people through the spec.

<jasnell> Also, it would be good to discuss the Actions proposal and how it relates to alternatives such as Hydra and schema.org/Actions

<elf-pavlik> +1 jasnell

tantek: consider topics that are difficult to discuss online (email, phone) to discuss in the face-to-face. such as UI and visual discussion.

<MattMarum> OpenSocial is looking to organize a separate event around same time most likely at UCSF. Still in discussion.

<elf-pavlik> +1 visual discussions!

tantek: let's avoid things such as 'here is a powerpoint' which could be done just as well in email
... had some success with working groups with 'unconference' or 'barcamp' type formats

<MattMarum> +1 to running a bar camp / uncon style session.

MarkC: agrees with tantek. james wants to do a walk-through of the specs. focus will be on the use-cases and how best to present those.

<tibor_katelbach> maybe subjet proposals can be submitted in advance , to motivate interest

<tantek> +1 to providing text summaries on the wiki *before* bringing up subjects in meetings

Arnaud: we will set up a page for the face-to-face meeting and people can propose topics to discuss
... barcamp is good so that topics can be flexible, bad when schedules overlap

<elf-pavlik> +1 email/wiki *before*

Arnaud: last week we set up an agenda to separate sections of the AS specs into dedicated specs

<bblfish> where was the discussion?

<elf-pavlik> https://github.com/jasnell/w3c-socialwg-activitystreams/issues/5

jasnell: 'url' is ubiquitious and should be there, was not in AS1

<oshepherd> 'url' WAS in AS1

jasnell: some disagreement about 'id' vs 'uid'. discussion on github led to some reasonable compromise

<oshepherd> (though a bit confused)

<jasnell> https://github.com/jasnell/w3c-socialwg-activitystreams/issues/5

jasnell: people should read through the issue page on github and make comments either there or on the mailing list

<Arnaud> https://github.com/jasnell/w3c-socialwg-activitystreams/issues

<jasnell> https://github.com/jasnell/w3c-socialwg-activitystreams/issues/10

<jasnell> https://github.com/jasnell/w3c-socialwg-activitystreams/issues/11

jasnell: between as1 and as2 changes were made to how links were handled. as2 wants to have a more generalized view of links. is this appropriate or do we need media links.

<oshepherd> The fundamental thing is are we defining just an interchange format or a data model

<oshepherd> Merging media links and objects make use as a data model more complex

<tantek> any guidance we can take from AS2 implementations?

<oshepherd> I know from AS1 impls, Pump.io, Impeller, Hubub (the latter two are Pump.io related apps fwiw), Idno/Known(?) use AS1 as their internal data model

jasnell: (acking tantek in irc) not sure we can take much from them yet

<jasnell> https://github.com/jasnell/w3c-socialwg-activitystreams/issues/12

<elf-pavlik> also http://sockethub.org uses AS1

<tantek> I heard that there are only 2 AS2 implementations that could be used to inform (prev issue) and that neither really helps in that regard.

jasnell: (wrt issue #12) html5 and microformats have taken a looser take on link relations, rfc5988 is stricter, which do we point to? jasnell prefers stricter rfc5988.

<tantek> jasnell - thought your strict intersection "compromise" made sense

<tibor_katelbach> +1 microformats

<tantek> good step forward

<bblfish> yes, step backward on the higher picture seems a good idea to me.

<oshepherd> I volunteer to raise data vs syntax model to mailing list?

<tantek> and yes +1 for suggesting use of the microformats rel-registry (like HTML5) does

jasnell: some of the larger issues (wrt AS spec) we should frame out and discuss (ie json-ld)

<jasnell> oshepherd: +1

<bblfish> we just saw that some of this needs to work on HTML5, it may need to work in JSON-LD, then also work on HTTP layer.

MattMarum: when we looked at AS in the past, it was a data format that didn't specify much wrt how to retrieve the streams

<jasnell> tantek: ok, I think it makes sense also so I think we're close on this one

MattMarum: to me, we need to think about how these APIs work for getting AS and social business use-cases around these activities
... That's what the social api means to opensocial

<oshepherd> I raised the question a while back as to whether embedded "widgets" and the "API" are the same spec

tibor_katelbach: why was AS chosen compared to schema.org/Hydra

<jasnell> I think we need to step back. The OpenSocial API approach works ok but is certainly not ideal by any stretch.

<tantek> sounds like good FAQs

<jasnell> that question can be answered as a FAQ, honestly

<tantek> tibor_katelbach: anyone can bring alternative proposals to the group

<tantek> right now, AS2 seems to have the most critical mass and active open editing / participation in this WG

Arnaud: the WG has agreed to proceed with the publication of the spec. we can still choose to not go further with it beyond publication. reconsideration of previous decisions is valid.

<tantek> jasnell, want to take this one as an FAQ to write-up?

<oshepherd> I think tantek could give you some good reasons as to why not Schema.org :-)

<jasnell> yes

<tantek> thank you jasnell

tibor_katelbach: I was using schema, and then found AS and found it quite complete. I have no problem with it, just wondering why

<bblfish> yes, it's true the group only formally started meeting last week.

<tantek> Arnaud, jasnell volunteered to write up FAQs for these questions.

Arnaud: anybody wanting to do a comparison and present a recommendation can do so, but we have to keep a timeframe in mind

<oshepherd> shepazu: the OpenSocial API submission link is in the charter

<Arnaud> http://www.w3.org/Submission/2014/SUBM-osapi-20140314/

<jasnell> Sorry, but IMHO, the OpenSocial API is a great example of a bad example to follow.

shepazu: is there a link to a social API?

<bblfish> thanks too.

<tibor_katelbach> why jasnell ?

<aaronpk> http://indiewebcamp.com/Micropub

<jasnell> unfortunately too much to go into right now tibor...

aaronpk: micropub builds on top of oauth for authentication. mirror-image of h-entry. uses form requests to make, for instance, status updates.

<tibor_katelbach> :) I'd love to here those thought maybe we can catch up later ?

<tibor_katelbach> hear

aaronpk: micropub is a way to make social posts which people are currently using. half of a dozen implementations for creating posts, thousands of users

<tantek> +1 to micropub as a building block for Social API

<jasnell> as far as API is concerned, there are three key areas to address: Vocabulary, Actions and Federation. We're looking at Vocabulary and Actions already. There is overlap we need to look at with regards to various ontologies, including schema.org.

<tantek> open spec and 10+ interoperable micropub implementations is a great start

harry: while there is this opensocial spec submitted to w3c, is this the latest version?

<tantek> jasnell, regarding overlap need to look is more like h-entry than schema.org (as far as API is concerned)

who is speaking?

<oshepherd> harry, or somebody else: Whats the procedure for bringing a proposal to the WG?

<elf-pavlik> tantek, aaronpk: do you have micropub listed on wiki?

<tantek> no one is using an API with schema vocab AFAIK. where as 10+ publishers / consumers are using micropub with h-entry and h-card

<tantek> elf-pavlik: yes http://indiewebcamp.com/Micropub

<elf-pavlik> socialWG wiki :)

<tantek> thought so, let me check

<jasnell> for Federation, we're largely talking about discoverability and distribution... which is a fancy way of saying GET and POST :-)

<aaronpk> I can add the link to today's call

<tantek> aaronpk, could you add micropub to this list? https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/Related#IndieWebCamp

??: The specification is indeed based on the latest version

<aaronpk> perfect thanks

<harry> In the WG, you just ask the Working Group to adopt it as an Editors Draft

<harry> and if the WG agrees, then we'll set you up a Respec.js and a space to edit in w3.org

<oshepherd> harry: OK. I have a draft I made a few months back I'd like to clean up and propose. I guess I'd just mail in a link?

<harry> Then if the WG moves forward with the spec, we can put in on what's called "Rec Track"

<tantek> Arnaud, could you pick a chair for next week (Evanpro?) - I cannot make it - I will be on a flight.

<harry> Yes, mail over mailing list, link to wiki, and we can discuss next call

<elf-pavlik> +1 looking at LDP

<harry> Make sure it's i scope though!

<jasnell> I'll post a detailed note about the Embedded Experiences and Action Handlers evolutinon by next call

<Loqi> harry meant to say: Make sure int's in scope though!

<MattMarum> Latest currently released OpenSocial specification: http://opensocial.org/documentation/opensocial-2-5-1/

bblfish: we have a bunch of apis, and I want to know how far one can one go building off of that and how many people would be interested in that

Arnaud: that is something that would be good to discuss on the mailing list

<tantek> propose EvanPro for chair for next week

<harry> As regards whoever was bringing up schema.org, until recently schema.org was incompatible with W3C's patent policy

<harry> so we didn't put that in the charter

<tommorris> Since last week, Linked Data Platform now has a Wikipedia article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linked_Data_Platform

<bblfish> wilkie: yes, and especially how it ties into with LDP https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/ldpwg/raw-file/tip/ldp-primer/ldp-primer.html

<harry> As regards Hydra, just point us to implementations and I'm sure folks can look at it.

<tibor_katelbach> bblfish +1

<harry> There's been lots of Semantic Web "ontologies" in this space, all with very little uptake but we understand that can change.

Arnaud: we should gather our use-cases. people should look at the agenda and add anything that one thinks is missing.

<Loqi> harry meant to say: There's been lots of Semantic Web "ontologies" in this space, all with very little uptake but we understand that can change.

<bblfish> oops the spec is here https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/ldpwg/raw-file/default/ldp.html

<bblfish> bye

<oshepherd> bye

<elf-pavlik> ciao o/

<tibor_katelbach> bye

<Arnaud> trackbot, end meeting

<harry> trackbot, end meeting

Summary of Action Items

[End of minutes]

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Default Present: Arnaud, deiu, +1.303.204.aaaa, jasnell, aaronpk, MarkCrawford, Sandro, rhiaro, ShaneHudson, wilkie, MattMarum, bblfish, tommorris, elf-pavlik, Tsyesika, tibor_katelbach, tantek, Dan_Romascanu, oshepherd, Doug_Schepers, Hhalpin
Present: Arnaud deiu +1.303.204.aaaa jasnell aaronpk MarkCrawford Sandro rhiaro ShaneHudson wilkie MattMarum bblfish tommorris elf-pavlik Tsyesika tibor_katelbach tantek Dan_Romascanu oshepherd Doug_Schepers Hhalpin
Found Date: 02 Sep 2014
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2014/09/02-social-minutes.html
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